Jennifer Mann: Episode Link
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On this episode, we speak with best-selling author Jenn Mann. This episode we talk midlife, her journey and the funny things that happen along the way.
TRANSCRIPT:
Welcome back to Hot Flashes and Cold Topics podcast, everybody. We are really thrilled today to have Jen Mann on. Now, Jen Mann, you probably know from people,
people I want to punch in the throat, a blog and book, and she also has a book, Midlife Bites, anyone else falling apart. or is it just me? And this book has been out and I just discovered it,
which is really a shame on my part that I just discovered it. And you also have a great Facebook group that a lot of women can get on there and really just let go and talk about what’s troubling them.
So first of all, I wanna thank you so much for joining us today. – Well, I appreciate you having me and I’m glad you’re here. the book, you know? You can find it the day it’s released or 10 years from now and I’ll say nothing.
– Yes, and it will still be relevant. So, yeah, it just so much what you say in there resonates with people, very humorous in the book, very open and honest.
And as I read it, I was like, yeah, so many topics that I want to get into about, yeah. So can you share? what led you to write the midlife fights book and start this group?
I think what led me to it was I kind of was having my own midlife crisis. I was turning 47 a few years ago and I breezed through like 30,
35, 40 kind of those like, I don’t know, those big birthdays that people worry about and I thought, oh, this is easy. And then I got to 47 and all of a sudden I was like, oh, crap, my life is literally half over.
Like there’s no, there’s no way around this. Like I can’t even pretend like it’s not. And, and I thought, you know, what have I, what have I done with my life? And I started kind of like spiraling about like,
have I accomplished enough, you know, are my kids good kids? Are they going to be able to move out of my house someday and like contribute to society? And, you know, and I thought about my husband and I was like,
gosh, are we going to be like, what are we going to talk about for the next 25? Yes, my life’s half over, but I still have like 25 more years with this guy probably. And like, what will we talk about? And will he always eat soup like that?
And I just started going like down this crazy spiral. And then I started feeling guilty. Because then I was like, no, this is crazy. Like, you’re you like, I’m like, I’m like, I’m like, I’m like, I’m like, I’m kids,
you have a good marriage, you have a safe home to live in, like it was winter and it’s like, you’re warm and you had dinner tonight. What is your deal? And I started having all this guilt.
And then I also thought, no, I can be unhappy. Like I’m allowed to be unhappy. I think I either might, we don’t have to compare. on who has the worst. I think everyone can be unhappy.
And my husband was out of town that night, and I called him and I was really upset. And he just was sort of like, are we, he goes, are we going to get divorced? And I was like, I don’t know,
I haven’t decided yet. Because I kind of just felt like I’d be better off on my own. I was like, oh, I think I just, I can’t do this anymore. I can’t do people anymore. And and so he told me at that point I’d been writing um on my people I want to punch in the throat blog and I had books and you know social media and stuff I’ve been writing on that for I don’t know nine years or something that and he was
like this is something you have to take to your community he’s like I can’t help you and he’s like I don’t know what to say to you he’s like but they do because they guarantee you you’re not the only person feeling like this and he’s a you’re not the only middle -aged woman that’s like going through this kind of like anxiety and angst and second guessing and you know,
and he’s like, I think you need to write about it and and just let your community help you get through this. And so I wrote a blog post that night called is anybody else falling apart or is it just me?
I put it out on my blog. I hadn’t really been blogging regularly for years. at that point, but I still had, I guess, a decent reach on there and it just sort of took off and the replies and the comments and the emails started flooding in and it was a lot of women saying,
“Oh my gosh, I’m feeling this, but I didn’t know what it was, like, I didn’t know how to say this, I didn’t know how to articulate this,” and the best was I even had some men that were like, “Oh my god, this is my wife, like, I know exactly, now I know how to talk to her,
I didn’t know what to say.” her. Holy crap, I got to go talk to her right now. Like, she’s gonna leave me. And, um, and so I realized that really right then that I needed to create a Facebook group, I have a pretty big presence on Facebook.
And I’m, I have a lot of different private communities or public communities on there. And I just thought we need a place to talk about this. And so I created a Facebook group called midlife bites. And I think we’re up to like,
I don’t know, 40 ,000 women now or something. like that in there. But at the same time, my editor from Penguin Random House, she follows me, she reads my blog,
and she sent me an email that night. And she was like, this is your next book, like this is what we have to talk about. And so we started working on it right away. Well, these conversations are luckily happening more often.
And women are starting to feel more seen and more heard. in this demographic, which is beyond time, because we are a demographic that is growing very quickly.
We’re living longer. What do you want to do with it? And one of the reasons Bridget and I started this podcast was to talk about what do you want to do with this next stage of life? Life is not over when the kids leave.
Life is not over when you go through menopause. As a matter of fact, who wants their period? Like, keep it. I know. I’m always saying to my kids. you know what I don’t miss? My period.
You know what I don’t miss? You know, hormonal migraines. You know what I don’t miss? Cramping. So it’s changing the narrative to see more of a positive. But in this book,
you really kind of touch on things like the raging hormones, saying yes to things, finding your purpose. How did you determine what you wanted to talk about this book?
book? This one was a little bit different. Everything else I’ve ever written, I write nonfiction stories about my life. And so before I even start the book, I know what stories I’m going to tell.
They’ve already happened. I know how they end. I know, you know, in this book, I was sort of like, oh, crap, like, what, what are we going to talk about? What am I comfortable talking about? And what do I feel?
Not only what do I feel comfortable sharing? personally but what do I feel comfortable um maybe even like giving advice on I felt a little bit like a fraud at times my editor and I would have these you know these conversations where I’d be like I’m not self -help like I’m not a doctor I don’t know and she was like no one’s asking you to be a doctor just you know say what you think and say what you’re doing and I
was like ah and so um yeah because it was kind of a new genre for me I called it angry self -help. I don’t know what else to call it. And, um, but I really used the group,
I kind of came up with my own things that I knew, like I really sat around and thought about like, what do I want to talk about? What’s bothering me? This was a very personal book to me. Like, it was sort of like, you know,
what do, what, what am I experiencing? And what do I want to talk about? And so in some of that time, you know, you’ll, you’ll read some of the reviews. they’ll be like, gosh, this lady talks about herself a lot. And I’m like, I know it’s about me.
It’s me. And so, and then I used the group as a sounding board and my editors in the group, and there would be topics that would come up and she would tag me and she would say,
Jen, this is a great topic. We should explore this, you know, and things like that. And I kind of took the temperature with them to see, one, do they want to talk? what I wanna talk about? Is it gonna resonate?
And then two, what am I missing? What am I forgetting about? Or what do I not know about? I’m not divorced. Divorce is a huge part of being in midlife and trying to reinvent yourself in that regard and what am I gonna do now?
And is it great or is it bad? I have friends who have parties and I have friends who have practically like funerals when they get divorced. And so it’s like, which way are we gonna go? I don’t know. empty nester yet,
but I just sent my first kid off to college this year. And so I don’t have that experience yet, but I know the dread that I was feeling that was coming and that kind of thing.
And so I just kind of make, I usually just make lists and I just kind of start writing and then if a chapter, if it works, it stays, if it doesn’t work, it goes.
(laughing) know. You know, so when you talked about how, I believe, and correct me if I’m wrong, when you went to your doctor, your doctor brought up that it could be perimenopause.
And it’s so wild, the experiences, because my doctor at 47 wouldn’t believe me. When I told them, I think I am heading into menopause. She wouldn’t believe me.
A female doctor wouldn’t believe me. So it’s so wild. the different experiences that women get and the different messages that women get. And I’m sure you hear that on your blog.
Can you share what that experience is like and how you felt from there when you were told that, when you were told, hey, you might be going through? Yeah,
I think my doctor, you know, my doctor has, he’s been my doctor since um, with all, since I was pregnant with my first, right? And back then I was in my, um, I think I gave,
I gave birth at like, I think that their first time at like 33, 34 or something like that. But they called me a geriatric pregnancy in those days. I don’t know if they still do now. Women are waiting much longer, but back then it was like, Oh,
she’s so old. I think it’s over 35 is geriatric now. Wow. And so he just kept calling me a geriatric pregnancy. And so I think in his mind, I was already old.
And so I didn’t surprise him when I came to him at 47 and he was like, oh yeah, like you are, you know, you’re old. No, I think it just, and I think because he’d known me for so long and I,
you know, and I told him, I’m like, I’m, I’ve always been angry. I mean, I have a whole cottage industry built on being angry. So I get that it was boring pissed off, but I said, I’m beyond like right now,
like I want to burn stuff to the ground for real. Like I really want to burn something. And I had been listening to NPR in the car and we were literally on my way there and they were talking about depression and they were talking about that rage is a sign and you know,
of depression. And I was like, what? And I was like, I’m depressed, you know? And so when I got to the doctor, you know, I told him this and he was like, oh, I don’t think you’re depressed. I just think you’re in menopause.
Like I think you’re impaired in menopause. And I was like, well, then how long is that going to last? And you know, if I was already mad about flip the exam table, because he’s like, Oh, it could be, you know, two years to eight years or whatever it was.
And I was like, I’m sorry, what? And I just was so, because I was like, okay, well, give me something, give me a pill, give me a shot, give me a cream, give me something, you know, what are we going to do about this? And, and he was like,
Oh, yeah, I don’t really recommend much. because it just, you know, there’s just no, there’s no point in it. It doesn’t work that well. Or, you know, I mean, he had all these reasons why I shouldn’t be doing things.
And because he’d been my doctor for so long, I just sort of like, let it go, I let him I just believed him, you know, I was just sort of like, Oh, so what do I do? And he’s like, Oh, and he just sort of pad me and he’s like,
you’ll get through this dear women have for centuries. And Oh, and I left that day and I found a new doctor and I went to see this new doctor and she was like oh girl there’s so many things we can do for you and so um you know so she’s been wonderful because she doesn’t doubt a thing I say you know I go in there and I’m like hey I really feel like I can’t focus I said and it’s not just I don’t walk,
I walk into a room and I forget what I walked in there for. Like that happens. I said, I look at my to -do list and I think, oh, what do I even start with? What do I even? And she was like, I got you.
Like, and so, you know, she’s been trying to really help me get through it. And, and, um, and I appreciate that. And I think that that’s the thing. And I’ve had, I’ve had several kind of health problems, weird health problems.
I write about that in the book too. And I’ve had to look. to really self advocate and really kind of be like, no, this is really happening. This is something I need help with. I need you guys to listen to me.
And if you’re not going to listen to me, I’m going to find somebody else who will, because I do that with my business. So why wouldn’t I do that with my health? You know, I can’t tell you how many agents I’ve been through at this point. It’s like,
and so why have I kept the same doctor for 20 years who, you know, tells me that I’ll be fine. That I just need to say it up which I think there is I mean don’t get me wrong I think I do need to suck it up at times too I can’t just go through this you know in a days or whatever but I think that there’s got to be some things we can do and he can help me and he should have helped me but we talk about
that a lot breaking up with your doctor because women either are embarrassed to talk about things like vaginal dryness mood swings, rage, brain fog,
because they know they’re doctor or they’re just embarrassed to talk about it. And if your doctor can’t answer your questions and give you relief, then it’s okay to break up with them. It’s not going to a personal thing.
Some doctors, you know, most doctors aren’t educated properly on menopause and continuing education really isn’t where it should be. And there are plenty of… board certified OBGYNs that are menopause certified that can answer your questions.
So we tell a lot of our listeners, don’t feel guilty breaking up with your doctor. It’s okay, you can move on and you’ll be surprised. Like you said, advocating for yourself is so important.
And at this time of life, midlife, one of the things we hear a lot, which I’m sure you hear in your group, is that I don’t feel seen or heard. I feel invisible. What do you tell your group members about feeling unseen and unheard?
Well, as a loud woman, my advice is always take up a lot of space. And, you know, I do think though,
you know, something about menopause and our generation. that’s going through it. And I always say that I started out as a mom blogger back in 2011, I’m Gen X.
And we were sort of the first bloggers to talk about postpartum depression. And we were the first ones to kind of open up about that, that, hey, I’m really struggling over here. Motherhood is not perfect. I went viral because I wrote a post about motherhood,
you know, I feel judged and I don’t feel like I am. perfect and I don’t want to be perfect. And so, and I think that menopause and perimenopause, I think it’s going to be the same way that we are still going to just be that loud,
obnoxious. We’re a very small generation, but we’re very big. Plus, we have millennials now. Millennials are aging. Those welcome ladies welcome. And they are a very big group and they have always advocated for themselves and they have always,
you know, been kind of the loud voice in the room too. So I always think that I feel like as I get older you know it’s kind of that what is it you know you used to always hear about like you know mouthy old ladies or whatever like I understand now why they are like I get it because it’s kind of sometimes the only way you’re going to get any sort of attention and I’m nice to a certain extent I will I mean
everyone. know, everyone’s like, Oh, well, if you go in like a nice little lady, you know, like, yeah, but I don’t really feel like I, I should have to be like that. You know, I think what would a man say what would a man do.
And I try to take that space. Yeah, and you address that as well in your book, just the space I know you talk about being told nice, nice ladies don’t do this and nice girls don’t do that.
And then you. also were talking about how physicians for the same treatment for a man that had a vasectomy, he got Oxycontin and a woman giving birth was like just hardly given anything.
And can you just talk about how, you kind of did address that, but can you talk about how those differences, like with men and women and what you’ve seen in those spaces? Well, I have always said that it doesn’t matter men who got pregnant accidentally instead of women,
we’d have drive -through clinics for everything they could possibly need. They could take care of that over a lunch break kind of thing. And so, you know, for instance,
I really, I just had dinner the other night, Sunday night, I had dinner with a friend who had a hysterectomy. We’re super invasive. Her doctor didn’t even, her doctor didn’t even,
was going to happen. She was having some complications afterwards and she went to see the doctor and she got to the office and another surgeon saw her and he was like, “Oh, did you not know that we did X,
Y, and Z as well to you?” And she was like, “No, no one told me that.” And he was like, “Oh yeah, you had all this other stuff.” And he’s like, “What are you, what are they giving you?” And she’s like, “I’m on like Tylenol.” And he’s like,
“Oh, well, we can give you more than that.” And, you know, and it’s like, she had no idea. And I think that’s everything. It’s like kind of like the luck of the draw with whatever doctor you get to that some doctors are like, Oh girl,
we got, we got to get you taken care of. And some doctors are like, you’re going to be okay. And I think there’s that whole, you know, we all talk about the man cold, but I do think the man cold is real. And, you know,
I have the only, my husband is the only person I know that was ever, he went to the emergency room. a few years ago when swine flu was a thing he went to the emergency room because he got dehydrated and I’m like you were five feet from a sink like what how in the world did you get dehydrated and he was like well you never brought me water and I was like I had two babies like I had two small children I was
trying to keep alive I didn’t realize I had to keep you alive as well like I gave you a glass I put you near a sink Like how did you get dehydrated? And, but I just think like part of it is then that they don’t even know how to take care of themselves.
And then I think part of it is that they are just huge babies because I did, I had a friend who had a vasectomy. He got like three days off from work, which I was like, like, do you know how much we, like do you know how much time we get off for having a baby,
like, you know? And, and, and he got, you know, super, super. super great pills, you know, super great painkillers to the point where I was like, hey, be careful, like you might, you might get addicted to those things,
like those are really strong. And I just, I’m always just amazed at how we just worry and bend over backwards for them. If they have, you know,
if I have a gallbladder surgery, it’s not near as bad as if, you know, a man had a gallbladder surgery, even though it’s both of our gallbladders. coming out. Although I have to say kidney stones. I’ve had kidney stones and I think it’s harder for men to pass them.
That’s what I hear. I’ve heard that the kidney stones and, um, and I’ve seen them. They do look pretty bad. So I’ll give men that. I’ll give you a kidney. But the rest of it, like, no, um,
I’m not allowed to swear on here, but I would say, like, go after yourself, you know, you can say that. You can say that. Yeah. Yeah. Believe me if you have to. But I just know because I just I’m always amazed at like how how much longer it takes them to recover.
You know, and the things that we go through, you know, I think TikTok, I’ve discovered TikTok in the last couple years. And I love TikTok. I don’t know if you guys are on there at all. But yeah, I love TikTok. And I love watching all these things.
Because for me, one, I learned a lot of stuff that I didn’t even know I knew, you know, I needed it to know or didn’t know. thing is a lot of people are also learning things. And there’s a lot of women out there educating men about things like an IUD.
Like, you know, what exactly is an IUD and how exactly does it go into your body and what exactly are they doing to you and what do you get for that? And you’re like, yeah, you get an ice pack and a Tylenol and they tell you,
go home. You know, we just put a fish hook in you. But you know, and so, you know, and the men are just like, and you guys do this with them. sort of you know you’re not out cold and we’re like no you know and and so I think and that’s the thing too I think a lot of people are sort of women are starting to demand that we’re just like wait a minute I should not have to feel all this I should not you have
no idea like what I’m feeling what this pain is like and what’s going on and I would like to have something to treat that and and there’s not and there’s nothing wrong I think that’s your thing I think we get embarrassed for asking for that too when you were saying like,
we get embarrassed about talking to our doctors. I’m not embarrassed about talking to my doctors about vaginal dryness, but I will tell him that I’m embarrassed to talk to him about being a baby. You know, then I’m like, you know, he’s like a little pinch.
I’m like, yeah, I got it, got it, no problem. You know, and he’s like, you good? And I’m like, super good, super good, super good. That was a great pinch, loved it. You know, like I won’t be that one, but we have to be.
I think some of us have to be because I look now at my daughter and I think I don’t want my daughter. to go through that. I don’t want her to feel that and suffer through that, which she doesn’t have to. Right. That’s Colleen and I said,
another reason we started this, we have daughters. I have a son and a daughter. She has two daughters and we want our daughters when they go through this time of life, we want things to be there for them.
We want them to be able to know it very readily. For them to take for granted what we for granted what we have to fight and raise our voices for is great. Can we talk about finding purpose in this stage of life?
Because you do talk about that in the book as well. And we hear from a lot of listeners, “I’m an empty nester or I have reached the pinnacle of this career. I really don’t want to do it anymore,
but I don’t know what my purpose is.” Can you talk about that? Yeah. So purpose is really important, I think, in getting through this next stage of life because especially if you’re a mom,
if you’ve been a mom for 18, 20 years, whatever it is, that even if you have another job outside of the home, it’s still a huge part of your job.
It’s a huge part of your life and it’s a huge part of your identity. I can’t tell you how many phones I’m in where I’m so -and -so as mom, probably in their phone rather than Jed. you know. And, and I think that when the kids start going off to college or beyond,
you know, you’re sort of like, well, what do I do now? Like, what do I, what, what am I supposed to do? You know, what are my weekends going to be full of now that I don’t have to go sit at soccer games or dance competitions or what have you,
you know, and what am I going to do? But it’s also not just moms. I just saw a friend a few weeks ago. She’s in her mid -40s. She’s single. She’s never had kids.
She’s a very high power job. And she is having problems with purpose. She’s like, it was like you said before that I’m kind of done with this job of kind of like, I’m kind of over this.
Like, I don’t really want to do this for the next half of my life. Like, what am I going to do? And I was like, you got to find the purpose. And she’s like, like, what? And I was like, it’s different for everybody. Like, you got to figure it out.
You got to know what you. you have to try things. That’s the other thing is between purpose and friends. I can’t tell you those are probably the two biggest complaints I hear about in my group, but it’s, I need a purpose and I need a friend,
but I don’t want to leave my house. But I don’t want to put on a bra and go anywhere. I don’t want to talk to anybody. I don’t want to try anything new, you know, and I’m that person too. Like, you know, that is a hundred percent me where I was just like,
I don’t want to leave my house, especially right now. It’s cold out. Who wants to go out in the cold? Who wants to go out when it’s dark at four o ‘clock in the afternoon? You just don’t want to do these things, but you’re not going to find a purpose sitting in your office or in your basement or watching Netflix all day or TikTok all day.
Unless you find the purpose on TikTok or maybe Binky TikToks is your purpose, I don’t know. That’s the thing. You’ve got to try these things and see what is it that you’re interested in. So I told her, you need to make a list of things that bring you.
happiness, that bring you, you know, that fulfill you. And she realized that she really likes working with women, with women shelters for women who are in domestic abuse situations.
And I was like, well, they always need help. I have one of my best friends, he’s the fundraiser for one here in Kansas City. And I was like, I’m always hearing how much you need to help. And would love,
and especially with her business expertise that she has, they definitely need her help. And so I was like, call him, tell him that you want to do so many hours a week with him, and, and try to do that.
Because, and it might not just be volunteering, it doesn’t always have to be volunteers, she’s in a position where it is, some people, it’s just a whole pivot of a new job. I mean, there’s that, that, that cliche where,
you know, you sell everything and you move to the beach and you rent surfboards, right? You know, that’s, there’s a reason why people do that. And I just saw someone on my Facebook yesterday that she,
you know, her husband, they, their kids left, they, they’re off to college, they sold everything and they’re moving overseas, you know, and they’re just like, we’re out, we’re, we’re gonna see later. And I don’t have that,
that’s not for me, that’s not what I want. do, but for them, it sounds like it’s gonna be great. And I’m excited to see what they do. I’m following along. So purpose is that it’s a hard one,
but it’s, and it’s a very personal one. And it takes a lot of soul searching and asking other people, what’s your purpose? What are you doing? What do you do all day? And can I come along with you?
Can I try that? You know, can I go walk dogs with you? I hear dogs are fun, let’s go try it, so. – Instead of just going to pick up one and having a dog in a shop first.
– Which we know you did too, you had a pandemic puppy, so I did, I did. – We got one of those, and he’s great. I don’t know that, I don’t know I’ll get another one,
but you know, he’s great. – Yeah, you know, it’s interesting too, because when you try something at this day, of your life, if you’re just searching for your purpose, I don’t look at it as a failure.
If it doesn’t, if it doesn’t work out, it’s just like something you tried and there’s so many things you can try when you’re at this stage of life. But it is, it’s nice like, you know,
Colleen and I, when we started this for four and a half years ago, we were just, we just jumped right in, you know, we had no idea what we were doing. And we just knew that. were… How hard could it be to do a podcast?
Oh, yeah. That’s why we learned that pretty quickly. But sometimes it’s also helpful to write down things that you don’t want to do. If you’re not clear on what you want,
you can kind of get some clarity when you figure out what you don’t want. And that list can be very long or very short, but that can kind of clear your brain a little bit too. So we sometimes suggest,
you know, just write down a list of things you absolutely absolutely don’t want to do and and sometimes something will pop up from that. Yeah that’s great. Yeah you know some other things you hit just with partnership you know with your husband you talk about scheduling sex and I’m like you know what sometimes my husband and my son edits these videos so hey bud sorry.
Yes check are you listening. So Jack here you go. – And my husband will like, can I pencil in? Can I pencil in? And Colleen’s like gonna look at John now.
– I’m gonna say John, where’s the pencil? (laughing) – As long as you’ve gotten erased, sir, in case things come up, then I can erase with that pencil. But you talk about that. Can you talk about why that can be something really helpful in your relationship?
– Yeah, because I think a lot of times, in a relationship there’s always one person that wants more loving than the other one does I think and keeps pays closer attention and they take it very personally whereas not personal I’m just tired you know like and um and so you know it’s always like oh well maybe if you do the laundry you know that was when they when my kids were young I was like well if you did the
laundry and you did the dishes like then I wouldn’t be so tired And now I don’t do, now he does the laundry and he does the dishes. So mom, I’m like, dang it, I got to figure it out. No, but, um, but he just like,
he would just keep track and, and in his mind, he would say, oh, it’s been a month and I would be like, it’s been like eight days. Like, and so what, what the joke was is I literally started putting it on my calendar when we had sex so that I could like prove him wrong and be like,
no, it was Monday at 4pm. [BLANK _AUDIO] You know, it was Thursday at eight and then, but then also it just started getting busier and now I have, we have one kid who’s away at college but we have one who’s,
who’s basically, she’s home school, she’s in virtual school. So she’s home all the time. And it’s not like when they were little and you could just put them to bed, you know? And now it’s like, and they have that sixth sense,
you know, they just kind of coming around and they’re like, what are you guys doing? Nothing. you know, so. – They do have that sixth sense, you’re right. It’s like they know the exact time. – Yeah,
yeah. – And so then it became where I was like, okay, we’re gonna have to put this on the calendar because I do have rules. I’m just like, I don’t wanna do it after 10 p .m. at night ’cause I’m too tired. Now I was like,
you know, I’m like, he doesn’t wanna do it first thing in the morning whereas I’m like, oh, morning would be great. We just start our day and you know, oh, and he’s like, no, morning I have, I’m, and things. So we had to kind of compromise and find a day and a time.
And it kind of changes. He’d like to have it every Tuesday at noon or something like that, but you have to look at the calendar and say, OK, well, this week I got Thursday at 4. What do you got? And he’s like, I got Thursday at 4 .30.
I’m like, perfect. Put me down. So other ways, because otherwise I really would probably– just not like I just would be like, oh, I’ll get you tomorrow.
And I could say that for a month and and it makes him feel bad, you know, and and I don’t want him to feel bad. And so I,
I try to, I try to do what I can that I’m comfortable with too, because it’s like it takes it takes him a hot minute to get your in the mood you know and it’s like you can’t just be like quick let’s go you know you have to yeah you’re not 25 anymore takes a little bit of preparation time and I think I think that’s the other reason why I you know want it on my calendar too so I can be like oh I probably
should shower today because I haven’t legs. Oh, no, I don’t shave. Shaving. You’re done. You’re done. That’s for new boyfriends.
That’s not for him. That was the way of that went the way of tampons. Yeah. You know, yeah, no. Yeah, I brush my teeth and I’ll shower, but that’s the right way. Rushing your teeth is that’s nice.
That’s nice. That’s showing effort, but it’s trend for a lot of women and we talk about this with experts. Your libido also goes down during perimenopause and menopause. So it like you said,
it’s not like a one -second thing. A lot of women have to prepare or a lot of women have to take some time to get in the mood and communication with your spouse or partner is key.
If they know what’s going on, they won’t take it so personally. Yes, exactly. And women, they say, you know, you’ve got a little more in your brain up here, it’s not so much, you know,
like the man, you know, ready to do anything, but it is it’s a lot It’s a brain and body combination thing that to get you going to get you in the mood Yeah,
well, and I think too with women our age and I think men don’t understand this either because I think you know Every man I talked to is like we don’t care about this stuff, but women care We’re getting older things look different now in the stark light of day when we’re standing there naked,
you know We you know, I have a whole chapter called, you know, is that a hair on my nipple? Like, I mean, I, you have weird stuff happening to you. And,
you know, and it’s like, and that’s all you can think about is like, oh, you know, this is saggy, or that is not as firm as it once was, or what have you. And he’s just like, I’m just happy to be here.
Like, like, I don’t care. But we care. And I think that gets us in our heads too, at this age. Oh, yeah, I agree. I think it absolutely does you also mention about the lack of desire for small talk No,
which I totally get and totally relate to because I think when I had maybe 50 I’m 56 now when I had 50 I was like,
I just don’t want to like tell me what you need Tell me what you need. I don’t want to be on the phone for a half hour. I don’t want to sit here and talk about these things that I don’t really have an interest in.
And you do kind of get that way. And sometimes it’s hard to cover that up and fake it. Can you talk a little bit about no more small talk? I think I’ve always been that way.
And just now it’s just more acceptable because we’re older and all of us are more that way. But I feel like… like, but it also goes to, it’s not so much that I don’t have time to hear all this,
it’s more that I’ve not, I don’t care. And I don’t know how to say this like any nicer than that, because it’s like what I care about it is I care about who you are like I care about like I’m talking to you about like,
you know, real things and I don’t yeah I live in this town, I know what the weather and the traffic are like, you know, I got it, I was out today, I understand. Yeah, we’re two weeks out from Christmas.
Woo, yeah, I haven’t shopped yet, my goodness. You know, it’s like, but like tell me like what you’re really thinking about. Tell me what’s going on in your world. Tell me how you’re feeling or, you know,
what is affecting you these days because, you know, there’s a meme out there or something about like, you know, I don’t want to know, I don’t know what you have. I don’t know what you, I don’t want to know what you had for lunch. You know, I want to know why your kids,
why your cousins. lost her kids because like I can see their Facebook, you know, information and stuff. And it’s like, yeah, tell me what all the dirt, tell me the gossip, tell me the tea, you know, I want to know what’s happening in your knitting circle.
Like, why is Mary mad at Joyce? What’s going on over there? But, um, but I think to me, because I feel like otherwise you don’t have a real relationship with a person, you can’t really get to know them otherwise.
Like, you know, and it’s one thing if you’re going to like, a networking function and you’re just trying to find, you know, clients to work with and that kind of thing, I can do that. That’s fine. But when I’m trying to go somewhere to like, you know, meet new people,
I just, I don’t want to talk about the weather. And, and that’s why I try to join things more like a book club or, or your movie club where that way,
at least we can like talk about that, we can talk about the book or the movie or what have you. Yeah, like a deeper meaning and then it leads you to think about other things. So I think that that’s probably that’s one thing with small talk you’re like I’m done with that.
And I do want to talk about how part of your book where I felt like you were like my hero was with the guy Dave like that’s in line at that bookstore.
Can you share that because I think in that moment I was like she’s every woman’s hero. Yeah. I was raging. I was raging on her Reddit. – There is always a Dave.
– Yeah. – Yeah. – When you write books called People, I want to punch in the throat. And you sit there at a book signing and people are walking by your table.
There are two reactions that you get. And one says, oh my God, I love that title. It really gets hilarious, you know. Then there’s another person that will walk by and say, “Oh, that sounds violent.
“I don’t really care for that. “You are not my people.” So then there’s like a third person and it’s always a dude and he’ll come by and he’ll say, “People, I want a punch in the throat.” Have you really ever done that?
You could kill someone doing that. Cool story, bro. Tell it more. And so they always feel like they have to like, I don’t know, like they want you to do that. then be or when they find out I write humor.
Tell me something funny. Tell me a joke. And I’m like, what do you do? I’m a, you know, I’m a plumber, go plumb a toilet, like go, don’t show me something that you do. And so I was at this book signing and I’d been on the road.
I did a, I don’t even remember how many cities I did, but I, my readers hosted a book signing for me. the country. And so I went to all these different kinds of places. And this was a, this was a,
like a city, what is the word I’m trying to think of, where they, all the businesses come together and they have lunch together, Chamber of Commerce, right? Okay. The Chamber of Commerce. So the room was predominantly men,
you know, it was probably 70 % men. And I don’t do as well in a room like that. But, but I got up there and I didn’t my spiel and everything. And then when it was all over,
people are lined up to like buy my book and, and he came up and he, yeah, he just sort of cut the line and he said, um, you know, do you mind if I take a look at this book at your little book is what he called it,
because your little book and, and I said, sure, you can look at my New York Times bestselling book, go ahead, you know, and he picked it up and he’s kind of thumbing through it and he’s just kind of scoffing and making comments.
And finally, I was like, I just don’t think it’s for you. Like, I don’t, you know, I don’t think that’s your book. If you want to put it down and move out of the way, that would be great because there’s other people that need to get up here.
And he was stunned because I don’t think anyone has ever said that to him, but I started saying that, you know, again, this was not my first rodeo. And I have that happens to me a lot where,
and then I want to block the tape. and I want to block people from the people who actually want to talk to you and need to talk to you and want to read this book and need to read the book. Like you’re blocking them and you’re,
you’re hogging up the oxygen in the room and you’re ruining the energy and I need you to just keep moving. Clearly, I’m not your cup of tea. I am not for you. You are not for me. I encourage you to go find someone else to read.
And he just, he didn’t know what to do with himself. but he moved. I loved it because that how, I mean, I know every woman that has happened to every woman,
some man has come up and tried to mansplain or whatever, or just, just energy suckers in the room. Yeah, yeah,
and I’ll say, I’ll just say, cause I’m sure men listen to this podcast and so I’ll just say hashtag, not all men, right, but hashtag all women. man and so maybe you guys could maybe talk to your fellow men about yeah moving along when something doesn’t appeal to them right you don’t have you can scroll you can move along you don’t have to stop you don’t have to engage no you can nobody should engage yeah nobody
told you had to come up afterwards and talk to me and buy a book it was all voluntary you could have left in tons of people left and you could have been one of those people who left, but you didn’t want to. And at that point, all I had were like women left in my line.
I only had, I don’t know, 15 people left probably and it was all women and they all just stood there like, do you hear yourself? Like, do you hear what you’re saying to her? Like, you know? – Yeah, just, oh goodness.
Yeah, that really stuck. You know, it made me want to just, yes, I was sharing on that one. – What’s happening next now? What are you working? on? – Oh,
what am I working on now? So I have an idea for a follow -up to “Midlife Bites” that I’ve been kind of working on, tentatively called a nice women don’t talk about such things.
And I think it’s gonna be like taboo topics that even more so than “Midlife Bites” that we don’t talk about. And I’m trying to figure it out. and what I wanna say in there.
But I’m also looking at fiction. I really wanna write fiction. And I’ve been working on a book that I’ve thought about this idea probably 10 years ago.
And 10 years ago, my husband told me it was too violent. I had an idea where moms, suburban moms would drive around in their minivans and exact equalize.
equalizer type justice on bad people, you know, that wronged their friends or whatever, you know, they’d run over, you know, an abuse of husband in their minivan or they’d, you know, put, you know,
a fish in somebody’s car, you know, or something. They would do these things and, and he was just like, that is so violent and so crazy. I can’t believe you are thinking like that. And I was like, I don’t know, like, don’t you ever like just fantasize about just like,
you know, tying somebody up. you know, who, who hurt your friend. And he’s like, no, I’m like, just me then. And then, uh, so I just kept percolating with this idea.
And I was like, he thinks it’s too violent. And then about a year ago, I saw an agent on Twitter basically asked for that same story. And I was like, I got it. I got it. And so I just have been trying to write it to make it funny,
but not too scary. Like, I don’t want people to be scared of me, but, you know, I’m not Gillian Flynn, but I’m like, if Gillian Flynn wrote humor, what would it look like? Kind of thing.
Yeah, I don’t know. I think that sounds great. I don’t think that’s really good. I like the idea of actually being able to punch someone in the throat for once. Especially someone who really deserves it.
I like that. You know, anyone who believes your child right then. and there. And like you said, abusive spouse, just anything like that. And I think again,
and I think this is a book that I needed to wait to write because now I am at the stage where I do have so many friends that are going through really bad divorces or or now they’re dating men that are just,
you know, horrible men, you know, do better, please guys who are out there dating on these apps, you know, like you know, he she gets all ready for dinner and shows up and then he texts her the last minute and says there’s some sports game on and he’s not coming,
you know, that is a man who I need to go to his house and I just need to like, I don’t know, probably hire a male stripper and send him to his house and make him really uncomfortable, you know,
like, his football party, like, I don’t know, like, I was thinking disconnect the cable, just kind of cut the cord. That too. I mean, I just, I just to think of what would mortify them,
hurt them, embarrass them, maybe kill them. – See, and that’s not violent, that’s not violent at all. – Yeah, you didn’t hurt them physically or anything. – And that’s hypothetical, nobody is saying that we would actually,
this is all hypothetical. – Exactly. – Oh, well definitely, we’ll be first in line to find out. – Yeah, yeah, we want to hear about it. – And have you back on. – And I’ll find out about it sooner. (laughing) – Yeah, I’ll let you know this time.
when it comes out, I’ll email you. – Oh, man. Well, we wanna thank you so much. This has been so much fun talking to you and just having a book out there and having a space where women can come and talk and just get these things out because when you don’t feel alone,
that is the first step in just healing and just feeling surrounded by a community of people that are just like you. So thank you so much. for coming on today. Well,
thank you for having me. And I really appreciate you guys finding me and reaching out. And I wish you great luck with your podcast. And what? Well, thank you so much. And good luck with good luck writing the book.
It sounds like it’s going to be fun. It may be a movie. It might be made into a movie or a series. Right. Yes. I’d watch it. Call me Netflix.
Call me. Exactly. Thank you.
people I want to punch in the throat, a blog and book, and she also has a book, Midlife Bites, anyone else falling apart. or is it just me? And this book has been out and I just discovered it,
which is really a shame on my part that I just discovered it. And you also have a great Facebook group that a lot of women can get on there and really just let go and talk about what’s troubling them.
So first of all, I wanna thank you so much for joining us today. – Well, I appreciate you having me and I’m glad you’re here. the book, you know? You can find it the day it’s released or 10 years from now and I’ll say nothing.
– Yes, and it will still be relevant. So, yeah, it just so much what you say in there resonates with people, very humorous in the book, very open and honest.
And as I read it, I was like, yeah, so many topics that I want to get into about, yeah. So can you share? what led you to write the midlife fights book and start this group?
I think what led me to it was I kind of was having my own midlife crisis. I was turning 47 a few years ago and I breezed through like 30,
35, 40 kind of those like, I don’t know, those big birthdays that people worry about and I thought, oh, this is easy. And then I got to 47 and all of a sudden I was like, oh, crap, my life is literally half over.
Like there’s no, there’s no way around this. Like I can’t even pretend like it’s not. And, and I thought, you know, what have I, what have I done with my life? And I started kind of like spiraling about like,
have I accomplished enough, you know, are my kids good kids? Are they going to be able to move out of my house someday and like contribute to society? And, you know, and I thought about my husband and I was like,
gosh, are we going to be like, what are we going to talk about for the next 25? Yes, my life’s half over, but I still have like 25 more years with this guy probably. And like, what will we talk about? And will he always eat soup like that?
And I just started going like down this crazy spiral. And then I started feeling guilty. Because then I was like, no, this is crazy. Like, you’re you like, I’m like, I’m like, I’m like, I’m like, I’m like, I’m kids,
you have a good marriage, you have a safe home to live in, like it was winter and it’s like, you’re warm and you had dinner tonight. What is your deal? And I started having all this guilt.
And then I also thought, no, I can be unhappy. Like I’m allowed to be unhappy. I think I either might, we don’t have to compare. on who has the worst. I think everyone can be unhappy.
And my husband was out of town that night, and I called him and I was really upset. And he just was sort of like, are we, he goes, are we going to get divorced? And I was like, I don’t know,
I haven’t decided yet. Because I kind of just felt like I’d be better off on my own. I was like, oh, I think I just, I can’t do this anymore. I can’t do people anymore. And and so he told me at that point I’d been writing um on my people I want to punch in the throat blog and I had books and you know social media and stuff I’ve been writing on that for I don’t know nine years or something that and he was
like this is something you have to take to your community he’s like I can’t help you and he’s like I don’t know what to say to you he’s like but they do because they guarantee you you’re not the only person feeling like this and he’s a you’re not the only middle -aged woman that’s like going through this kind of like anxiety and angst and second guessing and you know,
and he’s like, I think you need to write about it and and just let your community help you get through this. And so I wrote a blog post that night called is anybody else falling apart or is it just me?
I put it out on my blog. I hadn’t really been blogging regularly for years. at that point, but I still had, I guess, a decent reach on there and it just sort of took off and the replies and the comments and the emails started flooding in and it was a lot of women saying,
“Oh my gosh, I’m feeling this, but I didn’t know what it was, like, I didn’t know how to say this, I didn’t know how to articulate this,” and the best was I even had some men that were like, “Oh my god, this is my wife, like, I know exactly, now I know how to talk to her,
I didn’t know what to say.” her. Holy crap, I got to go talk to her right now. Like, she’s gonna leave me. And, um, and so I realized that really right then that I needed to create a Facebook group, I have a pretty big presence on Facebook.
And I’m, I have a lot of different private communities or public communities on there. And I just thought we need a place to talk about this. And so I created a Facebook group called midlife bites. And I think we’re up to like,
I don’t know, 40 ,000 women now or something. like that in there. But at the same time, my editor from Penguin Random House, she follows me, she reads my blog,
and she sent me an email that night. And she was like, this is your next book, like this is what we have to talk about. And so we started working on it right away. Well, these conversations are luckily happening more often.
And women are starting to feel more seen and more heard. in this demographic, which is beyond time, because we are a demographic that is growing very quickly.
We’re living longer. What do you want to do with it? And one of the reasons Bridget and I started this podcast was to talk about what do you want to do with this next stage of life? Life is not over when the kids leave.
Life is not over when you go through menopause. As a matter of fact, who wants their period? Like, keep it. I know. I’m always saying to my kids. you know what I don’t miss? My period.
You know what I don’t miss? You know, hormonal migraines. You know what I don’t miss? Cramping. So it’s changing the narrative to see more of a positive. But in this book,
you really kind of touch on things like the raging hormones, saying yes to things, finding your purpose. How did you determine what you wanted to talk about this book?
book? This one was a little bit different. Everything else I’ve ever written, I write nonfiction stories about my life. And so before I even start the book, I know what stories I’m going to tell.
They’ve already happened. I know how they end. I know, you know, in this book, I was sort of like, oh, crap, like, what, what are we going to talk about? What am I comfortable talking about? And what do I feel?
Not only what do I feel comfortable sharing? personally but what do I feel comfortable um maybe even like giving advice on I felt a little bit like a fraud at times my editor and I would have these you know these conversations where I’d be like I’m not self -help like I’m not a doctor I don’t know and she was like no one’s asking you to be a doctor just you know say what you think and say what you’re doing and I
was like ah and so um yeah because it was kind of a new genre for me I called it angry self -help. I don’t know what else to call it. And, um, but I really used the group,
I kind of came up with my own things that I knew, like I really sat around and thought about like, what do I want to talk about? What’s bothering me? This was a very personal book to me. Like, it was sort of like, you know,
what do, what, what am I experiencing? And what do I want to talk about? And so in some of that time, you know, you’ll, you’ll read some of the reviews. they’ll be like, gosh, this lady talks about herself a lot. And I’m like, I know it’s about me.
It’s me. And so, and then I used the group as a sounding board and my editors in the group, and there would be topics that would come up and she would tag me and she would say,
Jen, this is a great topic. We should explore this, you know, and things like that. And I kind of took the temperature with them to see, one, do they want to talk? what I wanna talk about? Is it gonna resonate?
And then two, what am I missing? What am I forgetting about? Or what do I not know about? I’m not divorced. Divorce is a huge part of being in midlife and trying to reinvent yourself in that regard and what am I gonna do now?
And is it great or is it bad? I have friends who have parties and I have friends who have practically like funerals when they get divorced. And so it’s like, which way are we gonna go? I don’t know. empty nester yet,
but I just sent my first kid off to college this year. And so I don’t have that experience yet, but I know the dread that I was feeling that was coming and that kind of thing.
And so I just kind of make, I usually just make lists and I just kind of start writing and then if a chapter, if it works, it stays, if it doesn’t work, it goes.
(laughing) know. You know, so when you talked about how, I believe, and correct me if I’m wrong, when you went to your doctor, your doctor brought up that it could be perimenopause.
And it’s so wild, the experiences, because my doctor at 47 wouldn’t believe me. When I told them, I think I am heading into menopause. She wouldn’t believe me.
A female doctor wouldn’t believe me. So it’s so wild. the different experiences that women get and the different messages that women get. And I’m sure you hear that on your blog.
Can you share what that experience is like and how you felt from there when you were told that, when you were told, hey, you might be going through? Yeah,
I think my doctor, you know, my doctor has, he’s been my doctor since um, with all, since I was pregnant with my first, right? And back then I was in my, um, I think I gave,
I gave birth at like, I think that their first time at like 33, 34 or something like that. But they called me a geriatric pregnancy in those days. I don’t know if they still do now. Women are waiting much longer, but back then it was like, Oh,
she’s so old. I think it’s over 35 is geriatric now. Wow. And so he just kept calling me a geriatric pregnancy. And so I think in his mind, I was already old.
And so I didn’t surprise him when I came to him at 47 and he was like, oh yeah, like you are, you know, you’re old. No, I think it just, and I think because he’d known me for so long and I,
you know, and I told him, I’m like, I’m, I’ve always been angry. I mean, I have a whole cottage industry built on being angry. So I get that it was boring pissed off, but I said, I’m beyond like right now,
like I want to burn stuff to the ground for real. Like I really want to burn something. And I had been listening to NPR in the car and we were literally on my way there and they were talking about depression and they were talking about that rage is a sign and you know,
of depression. And I was like, what? And I was like, I’m depressed, you know? And so when I got to the doctor, you know, I told him this and he was like, oh, I don’t think you’re depressed. I just think you’re in menopause.
Like I think you’re impaired in menopause. And I was like, well, then how long is that going to last? And you know, if I was already mad about flip the exam table, because he’s like, Oh, it could be, you know, two years to eight years or whatever it was.
And I was like, I’m sorry, what? And I just was so, because I was like, okay, well, give me something, give me a pill, give me a shot, give me a cream, give me something, you know, what are we going to do about this? And, and he was like,
Oh, yeah, I don’t really recommend much. because it just, you know, there’s just no, there’s no point in it. It doesn’t work that well. Or, you know, I mean, he had all these reasons why I shouldn’t be doing things.
And because he’d been my doctor for so long, I just sort of like, let it go, I let him I just believed him, you know, I was just sort of like, Oh, so what do I do? And he’s like, Oh, and he just sort of pad me and he’s like,
you’ll get through this dear women have for centuries. And Oh, and I left that day and I found a new doctor and I went to see this new doctor and she was like oh girl there’s so many things we can do for you and so um you know so she’s been wonderful because she doesn’t doubt a thing I say you know I go in there and I’m like hey I really feel like I can’t focus I said and it’s not just I don’t walk,
I walk into a room and I forget what I walked in there for. Like that happens. I said, I look at my to -do list and I think, oh, what do I even start with? What do I even? And she was like, I got you.
Like, and so, you know, she’s been trying to really help me get through it. And, and, um, and I appreciate that. And I think that that’s the thing. And I’ve had, I’ve had several kind of health problems, weird health problems.
I write about that in the book too. And I’ve had to look. to really self advocate and really kind of be like, no, this is really happening. This is something I need help with. I need you guys to listen to me.
And if you’re not going to listen to me, I’m going to find somebody else who will, because I do that with my business. So why wouldn’t I do that with my health? You know, I can’t tell you how many agents I’ve been through at this point. It’s like,
and so why have I kept the same doctor for 20 years who, you know, tells me that I’ll be fine. That I just need to say it up which I think there is I mean don’t get me wrong I think I do need to suck it up at times too I can’t just go through this you know in a days or whatever but I think that there’s got to be some things we can do and he can help me and he should have helped me but we talk about
that a lot breaking up with your doctor because women either are embarrassed to talk about things like vaginal dryness mood swings, rage, brain fog,
because they know they’re doctor or they’re just embarrassed to talk about it. And if your doctor can’t answer your questions and give you relief, then it’s okay to break up with them. It’s not going to a personal thing.
Some doctors, you know, most doctors aren’t educated properly on menopause and continuing education really isn’t where it should be. And there are plenty of… board certified OBGYNs that are menopause certified that can answer your questions.
So we tell a lot of our listeners, don’t feel guilty breaking up with your doctor. It’s okay, you can move on and you’ll be surprised. Like you said, advocating for yourself is so important.
And at this time of life, midlife, one of the things we hear a lot, which I’m sure you hear in your group, is that I don’t feel seen or heard. I feel invisible. What do you tell your group members about feeling unseen and unheard?
Well, as a loud woman, my advice is always take up a lot of space. And, you know, I do think though,
you know, something about menopause and our generation. that’s going through it. And I always say that I started out as a mom blogger back in 2011, I’m Gen X.
And we were sort of the first bloggers to talk about postpartum depression. And we were the first ones to kind of open up about that, that, hey, I’m really struggling over here. Motherhood is not perfect. I went viral because I wrote a post about motherhood,
you know, I feel judged and I don’t feel like I am. perfect and I don’t want to be perfect. And so, and I think that menopause and perimenopause, I think it’s going to be the same way that we are still going to just be that loud,
obnoxious. We’re a very small generation, but we’re very big. Plus, we have millennials now. Millennials are aging. Those welcome ladies welcome. And they are a very big group and they have always advocated for themselves and they have always,
you know, been kind of the loud voice in the room too. So I always think that I feel like as I get older you know it’s kind of that what is it you know you used to always hear about like you know mouthy old ladies or whatever like I understand now why they are like I get it because it’s kind of sometimes the only way you’re going to get any sort of attention and I’m nice to a certain extent I will I mean
everyone. know, everyone’s like, Oh, well, if you go in like a nice little lady, you know, like, yeah, but I don’t really feel like I, I should have to be like that. You know, I think what would a man say what would a man do.
And I try to take that space. Yeah, and you address that as well in your book, just the space I know you talk about being told nice, nice ladies don’t do this and nice girls don’t do that.
And then you. also were talking about how physicians for the same treatment for a man that had a vasectomy, he got Oxycontin and a woman giving birth was like just hardly given anything.
And can you just talk about how, you kind of did address that, but can you talk about how those differences, like with men and women and what you’ve seen in those spaces? Well, I have always said that it doesn’t matter men who got pregnant accidentally instead of women,
we’d have drive -through clinics for everything they could possibly need. They could take care of that over a lunch break kind of thing. And so, you know, for instance,
I really, I just had dinner the other night, Sunday night, I had dinner with a friend who had a hysterectomy. We’re super invasive. Her doctor didn’t even, her doctor didn’t even,
was going to happen. She was having some complications afterwards and she went to see the doctor and she got to the office and another surgeon saw her and he was like, “Oh, did you not know that we did X,
Y, and Z as well to you?” And she was like, “No, no one told me that.” And he was like, “Oh yeah, you had all this other stuff.” And he’s like, “What are you, what are they giving you?” And she’s like, “I’m on like Tylenol.” And he’s like,
“Oh, well, we can give you more than that.” And, you know, and it’s like, she had no idea. And I think that’s everything. It’s like kind of like the luck of the draw with whatever doctor you get to that some doctors are like, Oh girl,
we got, we got to get you taken care of. And some doctors are like, you’re going to be okay. And I think there’s that whole, you know, we all talk about the man cold, but I do think the man cold is real. And, you know,
I have the only, my husband is the only person I know that was ever, he went to the emergency room. a few years ago when swine flu was a thing he went to the emergency room because he got dehydrated and I’m like you were five feet from a sink like what how in the world did you get dehydrated and he was like well you never brought me water and I was like I had two babies like I had two small children I was
trying to keep alive I didn’t realize I had to keep you alive as well like I gave you a glass I put you near a sink Like how did you get dehydrated? And, but I just think like part of it is then that they don’t even know how to take care of themselves.
And then I think part of it is that they are just huge babies because I did, I had a friend who had a vasectomy. He got like three days off from work, which I was like, like, do you know how much we, like do you know how much time we get off for having a baby,
like, you know? And, and, and he got, you know, super, super. super great pills, you know, super great painkillers to the point where I was like, hey, be careful, like you might, you might get addicted to those things,
like those are really strong. And I just, I’m always just amazed at how we just worry and bend over backwards for them. If they have, you know,
if I have a gallbladder surgery, it’s not near as bad as if, you know, a man had a gallbladder surgery, even though it’s both of our gallbladders. coming out. Although I have to say kidney stones. I’ve had kidney stones and I think it’s harder for men to pass them.
That’s what I hear. I’ve heard that the kidney stones and, um, and I’ve seen them. They do look pretty bad. So I’ll give men that. I’ll give you a kidney. But the rest of it, like, no, um,
I’m not allowed to swear on here, but I would say, like, go after yourself, you know, you can say that. You can say that. Yeah. Yeah. Believe me if you have to. But I just know because I just I’m always amazed at like how how much longer it takes them to recover.
You know, and the things that we go through, you know, I think TikTok, I’ve discovered TikTok in the last couple years. And I love TikTok. I don’t know if you guys are on there at all. But yeah, I love TikTok. And I love watching all these things.
Because for me, one, I learned a lot of stuff that I didn’t even know I knew, you know, I needed it to know or didn’t know. thing is a lot of people are also learning things. And there’s a lot of women out there educating men about things like an IUD.
Like, you know, what exactly is an IUD and how exactly does it go into your body and what exactly are they doing to you and what do you get for that? And you’re like, yeah, you get an ice pack and a Tylenol and they tell you,
go home. You know, we just put a fish hook in you. But you know, and so, you know, and the men are just like, and you guys do this with them. sort of you know you’re not out cold and we’re like no you know and and so I think and that’s the thing too I think a lot of people are sort of women are starting to demand that we’re just like wait a minute I should not have to feel all this I should not you have
no idea like what I’m feeling what this pain is like and what’s going on and I would like to have something to treat that and and there’s not and there’s nothing wrong I think that’s your thing I think we get embarrassed for asking for that too when you were saying like,
we get embarrassed about talking to our doctors. I’m not embarrassed about talking to my doctors about vaginal dryness, but I will tell him that I’m embarrassed to talk to him about being a baby. You know, then I’m like, you know, he’s like a little pinch.
I’m like, yeah, I got it, got it, no problem. You know, and he’s like, you good? And I’m like, super good, super good, super good. That was a great pinch, loved it. You know, like I won’t be that one, but we have to be.
I think some of us have to be because I look now at my daughter and I think I don’t want my daughter. to go through that. I don’t want her to feel that and suffer through that, which she doesn’t have to. Right. That’s Colleen and I said,
another reason we started this, we have daughters. I have a son and a daughter. She has two daughters and we want our daughters when they go through this time of life, we want things to be there for them.
We want them to be able to know it very readily. For them to take for granted what we for granted what we have to fight and raise our voices for is great. Can we talk about finding purpose in this stage of life?
Because you do talk about that in the book as well. And we hear from a lot of listeners, “I’m an empty nester or I have reached the pinnacle of this career. I really don’t want to do it anymore,
but I don’t know what my purpose is.” Can you talk about that? Yeah. So purpose is really important, I think, in getting through this next stage of life because especially if you’re a mom,
if you’ve been a mom for 18, 20 years, whatever it is, that even if you have another job outside of the home, it’s still a huge part of your job.
It’s a huge part of your life and it’s a huge part of your identity. I can’t tell you how many phones I’m in where I’m so -and -so as mom, probably in their phone rather than Jed. you know. And, and I think that when the kids start going off to college or beyond,
you know, you’re sort of like, well, what do I do now? Like, what do I, what, what am I supposed to do? You know, what are my weekends going to be full of now that I don’t have to go sit at soccer games or dance competitions or what have you,
you know, and what am I going to do? But it’s also not just moms. I just saw a friend a few weeks ago. She’s in her mid -40s. She’s single. She’s never had kids.
She’s a very high power job. And she is having problems with purpose. She’s like, it was like you said before that I’m kind of done with this job of kind of like, I’m kind of over this.
Like, I don’t really want to do this for the next half of my life. Like, what am I going to do? And I was like, you got to find the purpose. And she’s like, like, what? And I was like, it’s different for everybody. Like, you got to figure it out.
You got to know what you. you have to try things. That’s the other thing is between purpose and friends. I can’t tell you those are probably the two biggest complaints I hear about in my group, but it’s, I need a purpose and I need a friend,
but I don’t want to leave my house. But I don’t want to put on a bra and go anywhere. I don’t want to talk to anybody. I don’t want to try anything new, you know, and I’m that person too. Like, you know, that is a hundred percent me where I was just like,
I don’t want to leave my house, especially right now. It’s cold out. Who wants to go out in the cold? Who wants to go out when it’s dark at four o ‘clock in the afternoon? You just don’t want to do these things, but you’re not going to find a purpose sitting in your office or in your basement or watching Netflix all day or TikTok all day.
Unless you find the purpose on TikTok or maybe Binky TikToks is your purpose, I don’t know. That’s the thing. You’ve got to try these things and see what is it that you’re interested in. So I told her, you need to make a list of things that bring you.
happiness, that bring you, you know, that fulfill you. And she realized that she really likes working with women, with women shelters for women who are in domestic abuse situations.
And I was like, well, they always need help. I have one of my best friends, he’s the fundraiser for one here in Kansas City. And I was like, I’m always hearing how much you need to help. And would love,
and especially with her business expertise that she has, they definitely need her help. And so I was like, call him, tell him that you want to do so many hours a week with him, and, and try to do that.
Because, and it might not just be volunteering, it doesn’t always have to be volunteers, she’s in a position where it is, some people, it’s just a whole pivot of a new job. I mean, there’s that, that, that cliche where,
you know, you sell everything and you move to the beach and you rent surfboards, right? You know, that’s, there’s a reason why people do that. And I just saw someone on my Facebook yesterday that she,
you know, her husband, they, their kids left, they, they’re off to college, they sold everything and they’re moving overseas, you know, and they’re just like, we’re out, we’re, we’re gonna see later. And I don’t have that,
that’s not for me, that’s not what I want. do, but for them, it sounds like it’s gonna be great. And I’m excited to see what they do. I’m following along. So purpose is that it’s a hard one,
but it’s, and it’s a very personal one. And it takes a lot of soul searching and asking other people, what’s your purpose? What are you doing? What do you do all day? And can I come along with you?
Can I try that? You know, can I go walk dogs with you? I hear dogs are fun, let’s go try it, so. – Instead of just going to pick up one and having a dog in a shop first.
– Which we know you did too, you had a pandemic puppy, so I did, I did. – We got one of those, and he’s great. I don’t know that, I don’t know I’ll get another one,
but you know, he’s great. – Yeah, you know, it’s interesting too, because when you try something at this day, of your life, if you’re just searching for your purpose, I don’t look at it as a failure.
If it doesn’t, if it doesn’t work out, it’s just like something you tried and there’s so many things you can try when you’re at this stage of life. But it is, it’s nice like, you know,
Colleen and I, when we started this for four and a half years ago, we were just, we just jumped right in, you know, we had no idea what we were doing. And we just knew that. were… How hard could it be to do a podcast?
Oh, yeah. That’s why we learned that pretty quickly. But sometimes it’s also helpful to write down things that you don’t want to do. If you’re not clear on what you want,
you can kind of get some clarity when you figure out what you don’t want. And that list can be very long or very short, but that can kind of clear your brain a little bit too. So we sometimes suggest,
you know, just write down a list of things you absolutely absolutely don’t want to do and and sometimes something will pop up from that. Yeah that’s great. Yeah you know some other things you hit just with partnership you know with your husband you talk about scheduling sex and I’m like you know what sometimes my husband and my son edits these videos so hey bud sorry.
Yes check are you listening. So Jack here you go. – And my husband will like, can I pencil in? Can I pencil in? And Colleen’s like gonna look at John now.
– I’m gonna say John, where’s the pencil? (laughing) – As long as you’ve gotten erased, sir, in case things come up, then I can erase with that pencil. But you talk about that. Can you talk about why that can be something really helpful in your relationship?
– Yeah, because I think a lot of times, in a relationship there’s always one person that wants more loving than the other one does I think and keeps pays closer attention and they take it very personally whereas not personal I’m just tired you know like and um and so you know it’s always like oh well maybe if you do the laundry you know that was when they when my kids were young I was like well if you did the
laundry and you did the dishes like then I wouldn’t be so tired And now I don’t do, now he does the laundry and he does the dishes. So mom, I’m like, dang it, I got to figure it out. No, but, um, but he just like,
he would just keep track and, and in his mind, he would say, oh, it’s been a month and I would be like, it’s been like eight days. Like, and so what, what the joke was is I literally started putting it on my calendar when we had sex so that I could like prove him wrong and be like,
no, it was Monday at 4pm. [BLANK _AUDIO] You know, it was Thursday at eight and then, but then also it just started getting busier and now I have, we have one kid who’s away at college but we have one who’s,
who’s basically, she’s home school, she’s in virtual school. So she’s home all the time. And it’s not like when they were little and you could just put them to bed, you know? And now it’s like, and they have that sixth sense,
you know, they just kind of coming around and they’re like, what are you guys doing? Nothing. you know, so. – They do have that sixth sense, you’re right. It’s like they know the exact time. – Yeah,
yeah. – And so then it became where I was like, okay, we’re gonna have to put this on the calendar because I do have rules. I’m just like, I don’t wanna do it after 10 p .m. at night ’cause I’m too tired. Now I was like,
you know, I’m like, he doesn’t wanna do it first thing in the morning whereas I’m like, oh, morning would be great. We just start our day and you know, oh, and he’s like, no, morning I have, I’m, and things. So we had to kind of compromise and find a day and a time.
And it kind of changes. He’d like to have it every Tuesday at noon or something like that, but you have to look at the calendar and say, OK, well, this week I got Thursday at 4. What do you got? And he’s like, I got Thursday at 4 .30.
I’m like, perfect. Put me down. So other ways, because otherwise I really would probably– just not like I just would be like, oh, I’ll get you tomorrow.
And I could say that for a month and and it makes him feel bad, you know, and and I don’t want him to feel bad. And so I,
I try to, I try to do what I can that I’m comfortable with too, because it’s like it takes it takes him a hot minute to get your in the mood you know and it’s like you can’t just be like quick let’s go you know you have to yeah you’re not 25 anymore takes a little bit of preparation time and I think I think that’s the other reason why I you know want it on my calendar too so I can be like oh I probably
should shower today because I haven’t legs. Oh, no, I don’t shave. Shaving. You’re done. You’re done. That’s for new boyfriends.
That’s not for him. That was the way of that went the way of tampons. Yeah. You know, yeah, no. Yeah, I brush my teeth and I’ll shower, but that’s the right way. Rushing your teeth is that’s nice.
That’s nice. That’s showing effort, but it’s trend for a lot of women and we talk about this with experts. Your libido also goes down during perimenopause and menopause. So it like you said,
it’s not like a one -second thing. A lot of women have to prepare or a lot of women have to take some time to get in the mood and communication with your spouse or partner is key.
If they know what’s going on, they won’t take it so personally. Yes, exactly. And women, they say, you know, you’ve got a little more in your brain up here, it’s not so much, you know,
like the man, you know, ready to do anything, but it is it’s a lot It’s a brain and body combination thing that to get you going to get you in the mood Yeah,
well, and I think too with women our age and I think men don’t understand this either because I think you know Every man I talked to is like we don’t care about this stuff, but women care We’re getting older things look different now in the stark light of day when we’re standing there naked,
you know We you know, I have a whole chapter called, you know, is that a hair on my nipple? Like, I mean, I, you have weird stuff happening to you. And,
you know, and it’s like, and that’s all you can think about is like, oh, you know, this is saggy, or that is not as firm as it once was, or what have you. And he’s just like, I’m just happy to be here.
Like, like, I don’t care. But we care. And I think that gets us in our heads too, at this age. Oh, yeah, I agree. I think it absolutely does you also mention about the lack of desire for small talk No,
which I totally get and totally relate to because I think when I had maybe 50 I’m 56 now when I had 50 I was like,
I just don’t want to like tell me what you need Tell me what you need. I don’t want to be on the phone for a half hour. I don’t want to sit here and talk about these things that I don’t really have an interest in.
And you do kind of get that way. And sometimes it’s hard to cover that up and fake it. Can you talk a little bit about no more small talk? I think I’ve always been that way.
And just now it’s just more acceptable because we’re older and all of us are more that way. But I feel like… like, but it also goes to, it’s not so much that I don’t have time to hear all this,
it’s more that I’ve not, I don’t care. And I don’t know how to say this like any nicer than that, because it’s like what I care about it is I care about who you are like I care about like I’m talking to you about like,
you know, real things and I don’t yeah I live in this town, I know what the weather and the traffic are like, you know, I got it, I was out today, I understand. Yeah, we’re two weeks out from Christmas.
Woo, yeah, I haven’t shopped yet, my goodness. You know, it’s like, but like tell me like what you’re really thinking about. Tell me what’s going on in your world. Tell me how you’re feeling or, you know,
what is affecting you these days because, you know, there’s a meme out there or something about like, you know, I don’t want to know, I don’t know what you have. I don’t know what you, I don’t want to know what you had for lunch. You know, I want to know why your kids,
why your cousins. lost her kids because like I can see their Facebook, you know, information and stuff. And it’s like, yeah, tell me what all the dirt, tell me the gossip, tell me the tea, you know, I want to know what’s happening in your knitting circle.
Like, why is Mary mad at Joyce? What’s going on over there? But, um, but I think to me, because I feel like otherwise you don’t have a real relationship with a person, you can’t really get to know them otherwise.
Like, you know, and it’s one thing if you’re going to like, a networking function and you’re just trying to find, you know, clients to work with and that kind of thing, I can do that. That’s fine. But when I’m trying to go somewhere to like, you know, meet new people,
I just, I don’t want to talk about the weather. And, and that’s why I try to join things more like a book club or, or your movie club where that way,
at least we can like talk about that, we can talk about the book or the movie or what have you. Yeah, like a deeper meaning and then it leads you to think about other things. So I think that that’s probably that’s one thing with small talk you’re like I’m done with that.
And I do want to talk about how part of your book where I felt like you were like my hero was with the guy Dave like that’s in line at that bookstore.
Can you share that because I think in that moment I was like she’s every woman’s hero. Yeah. I was raging. I was raging on her Reddit. – There is always a Dave.
– Yeah. – Yeah. – When you write books called People, I want to punch in the throat. And you sit there at a book signing and people are walking by your table.
There are two reactions that you get. And one says, oh my God, I love that title. It really gets hilarious, you know. Then there’s another person that will walk by and say, “Oh, that sounds violent.
“I don’t really care for that. “You are not my people.” So then there’s like a third person and it’s always a dude and he’ll come by and he’ll say, “People, I want a punch in the throat.” Have you really ever done that?
You could kill someone doing that. Cool story, bro. Tell it more. And so they always feel like they have to like, I don’t know, like they want you to do that. then be or when they find out I write humor.
Tell me something funny. Tell me a joke. And I’m like, what do you do? I’m a, you know, I’m a plumber, go plumb a toilet, like go, don’t show me something that you do. And so I was at this book signing and I’d been on the road.
I did a, I don’t even remember how many cities I did, but I, my readers hosted a book signing for me. the country. And so I went to all these different kinds of places. And this was a, this was a,
like a city, what is the word I’m trying to think of, where they, all the businesses come together and they have lunch together, Chamber of Commerce, right? Okay. The Chamber of Commerce. So the room was predominantly men,
you know, it was probably 70 % men. And I don’t do as well in a room like that. But, but I got up there and I didn’t my spiel and everything. And then when it was all over,
people are lined up to like buy my book and, and he came up and he, yeah, he just sort of cut the line and he said, um, you know, do you mind if I take a look at this book at your little book is what he called it,
because your little book and, and I said, sure, you can look at my New York Times bestselling book, go ahead, you know, and he picked it up and he’s kind of thumbing through it and he’s just kind of scoffing and making comments.
And finally, I was like, I just don’t think it’s for you. Like, I don’t, you know, I don’t think that’s your book. If you want to put it down and move out of the way, that would be great because there’s other people that need to get up here.
And he was stunned because I don’t think anyone has ever said that to him, but I started saying that, you know, again, this was not my first rodeo. And I have that happens to me a lot where,
and then I want to block the tape. and I want to block people from the people who actually want to talk to you and need to talk to you and want to read this book and need to read the book. Like you’re blocking them and you’re,
you’re hogging up the oxygen in the room and you’re ruining the energy and I need you to just keep moving. Clearly, I’m not your cup of tea. I am not for you. You are not for me. I encourage you to go find someone else to read.
And he just, he didn’t know what to do with himself. but he moved. I loved it because that how, I mean, I know every woman that has happened to every woman,
some man has come up and tried to mansplain or whatever, or just, just energy suckers in the room. Yeah, yeah,
and I’ll say, I’ll just say, cause I’m sure men listen to this podcast and so I’ll just say hashtag, not all men, right, but hashtag all women. man and so maybe you guys could maybe talk to your fellow men about yeah moving along when something doesn’t appeal to them right you don’t have you can scroll you can move along you don’t have to stop you don’t have to engage no you can nobody should engage yeah nobody
told you had to come up afterwards and talk to me and buy a book it was all voluntary you could have left in tons of people left and you could have been one of those people who left, but you didn’t want to. And at that point, all I had were like women left in my line.
I only had, I don’t know, 15 people left probably and it was all women and they all just stood there like, do you hear yourself? Like, do you hear what you’re saying to her? Like, you know? – Yeah, just, oh goodness.
Yeah, that really stuck. You know, it made me want to just, yes, I was sharing on that one. – What’s happening next now? What are you working? on? – Oh,
what am I working on now? So I have an idea for a follow -up to “Midlife Bites” that I’ve been kind of working on, tentatively called a nice women don’t talk about such things.
And I think it’s gonna be like taboo topics that even more so than “Midlife Bites” that we don’t talk about. And I’m trying to figure it out. and what I wanna say in there.
But I’m also looking at fiction. I really wanna write fiction. And I’ve been working on a book that I’ve thought about this idea probably 10 years ago.
And 10 years ago, my husband told me it was too violent. I had an idea where moms, suburban moms would drive around in their minivans and exact equalize.
equalizer type justice on bad people, you know, that wronged their friends or whatever, you know, they’d run over, you know, an abuse of husband in their minivan or they’d, you know, put, you know,
a fish in somebody’s car, you know, or something. They would do these things and, and he was just like, that is so violent and so crazy. I can’t believe you are thinking like that. And I was like, I don’t know, like, don’t you ever like just fantasize about just like,
you know, tying somebody up. you know, who, who hurt your friend. And he’s like, no, I’m like, just me then. And then, uh, so I just kept percolating with this idea.
And I was like, he thinks it’s too violent. And then about a year ago, I saw an agent on Twitter basically asked for that same story. And I was like, I got it. I got it. And so I just have been trying to write it to make it funny,
but not too scary. Like, I don’t want people to be scared of me, but, you know, I’m not Gillian Flynn, but I’m like, if Gillian Flynn wrote humor, what would it look like? Kind of thing.
Yeah, I don’t know. I think that sounds great. I don’t think that’s really good. I like the idea of actually being able to punch someone in the throat for once. Especially someone who really deserves it.
I like that. You know, anyone who believes your child right then. and there. And like you said, abusive spouse, just anything like that. And I think again,
and I think this is a book that I needed to wait to write because now I am at the stage where I do have so many friends that are going through really bad divorces or or now they’re dating men that are just,
you know, horrible men, you know, do better, please guys who are out there dating on these apps, you know, like you know, he she gets all ready for dinner and shows up and then he texts her the last minute and says there’s some sports game on and he’s not coming,
you know, that is a man who I need to go to his house and I just need to like, I don’t know, probably hire a male stripper and send him to his house and make him really uncomfortable, you know,
like, his football party, like, I don’t know, like, I was thinking disconnect the cable, just kind of cut the cord. That too. I mean, I just, I just to think of what would mortify them,
hurt them, embarrass them, maybe kill them. – See, and that’s not violent, that’s not violent at all. – Yeah, you didn’t hurt them physically or anything. – And that’s hypothetical, nobody is saying that we would actually,
this is all hypothetical. – Exactly. – Oh, well definitely, we’ll be first in line to find out. – Yeah, yeah, we want to hear about it. – And have you back on. – And I’ll find out about it sooner. (laughing) – Yeah, I’ll let you know this time.
when it comes out, I’ll email you. – Oh, man. Well, we wanna thank you so much. This has been so much fun talking to you and just having a book out there and having a space where women can come and talk and just get these things out because when you don’t feel alone,
that is the first step in just healing and just feeling surrounded by a community of people that are just like you. So thank you so much. for coming on today. Well,
thank you for having me. And I really appreciate you guys finding me and reaching out. And I wish you great luck with your podcast. And what? Well, thank you so much. And good luck with good luck writing the book.
It sounds like it’s going to be fun. It may be a movie. It might be made into a movie or a series. Right. Yes. I’d watch it. Call me Netflix.
Call me. Exactly. Thank you.