Dr. Catherine Hansen: Episode Link
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On this episode, we are speaking to Dr. Catherine Hansen, head of Pandia Health’s menopause hormonal care,
TRANSCRIPT:
Welcome back to Hot Flashes on Cool Topics. We have a really interesting conversation for you guys today. We are welcoming Dr. Catherine Hansen of Pandia Health, and we are going to be talking about menopause in the workplace.
So let me start by saying welcome to the show, Dr. Katherine. Thank you so much for having me. This is amazing to be raising awareness about this. essential topic We talked so much about menopausal symptoms menopausal support For that for those symptoms,
but we don’t talk enough about what is happening for women in our demographic In the workplace and you know, we account for almost 30 % of the US labor force women going through menopause.
So this is a big percentage You know working with Pandia Health, what has have you found kind of coming up to the surface as far as problems in the workplace?
Right. So essentially at Pandia Health, we have access for women to get services, to do a consultation around menopause, and so we don’t necessarily ask those professional questions.
But like you said, we know that 30 % of women are or women are making up a huge portion of the work. workforce. We know also that women will spend over half of their lives,
a lot of women, if we’re lucky enough to make it to menopause because of our longevity will spend, you know, almost half of our lives post menopausal. And so we’re going to be working in those years and we’re actually going to be gaining momentum into leadership positions in those years.
And so what we’re finding at Pandia Health and other places places is that women are really needing access to care so that they can cope with all of those challenges around productivity,
efficiency, essentially the ROI that is necessary and needed in their workplaces in order to not just be happy, which is vital and you know thriving but also effective at their work and able to function and feel like they’re making a contribution.
– Yeah, when you’re talking to employers, how do you approach them about bringing up menopause in the workplace and what would that look like for somebody wanting this kind of service?
– Right, so menopause in the workplace is gaining momentum as you know and as you are contributing to in the conversations that you’re having. And I think that it needs to be normalized.
We just need to realize that in the workplace we have women of all ages and stages of life and that we are often offering services for women who are younger around reproductive care,
around pregnancy, and yet we’re not really giving the same level of care. There’s not equitable care for women who are midlife and beyond. And that is essentially what we’re offering.
required of workplaces, of leadership, of, of people who are setting policy and standards of practice in the workplace. And so these are the vital conversations that we’re having,
essentially asking, you know, what’s already in existence in your workplace? And if it’s severely lacking, which usually it is, how can we put some pieces into place that’ll make this conversation more part of the norm?
You know, that’s an interesting point because when you are approaching a business that may have some support systems in place for pregnant women or maternity leave,
are you looking for that support system to be like a continuous line to menopause or should menopause be a completely different support system?
– Well, such a great question. Right now, it seems like people are are sort of making it a separate section you know like we’re not we don’t have access to the menopausal care that we need let’s put in place this access to this care and I think that will work in the short term but in the long term we’re women with this whole variety and diversity of health needs and some of you know the lines are blurred blurred
and so wouldn’t it be great if women were just able to access care for whatever their concerns were, whatever their questions were. And if they lead to, you know, questions around hormones and menopause,
then we can blend that conversation, you know, almost, you know, almost right out of reproductive years into what’s next. And that way women can be prepared and not surprised.
surprised about what’s potentially coming. – Yeah, it sounds like, you know, I can see why they want to separate because just like when you go to your gynecologist or obstetrician,
you go in the waiting room, most of the people are pregnant. Then you’ve got the one or two men of pause women over here, you know, the quarter. And I could see why, you know,
having both together, maybe more attention. would be given to maternity leave and reproductive years. My question also is, what has your response been from employers?
How, when they are approached about menopause care, what has been maybe the average response from employers? – Yeah,
the, at Pandia Health, we’re working with employers. who are requesting services. So we’re talking about conscious, visionary, you know,
forward thinking, leadership, and organizations that are ready to do the heavy lifting of implementing new policies and standards of practice.
When I speak with organizations sort of on other topics and we say, “Oh, you know, you’ve got employee assistance.” assistance programs around mental health or around fitness and cholesterol and heart disease.
What about hormones, midlife, menopausal care? There’s usually a little bit of shock and awe like oh wait you know that makes up a huge portion of our workforce but we’re really not doing justice to addressing those concerns in a way that would have women feeling really seen and heard.
and validated my experience in my practice and at Pandia Health has been that women are feeling you know quite honestly a little bit gaslit and made to feel a little crazy because we were talking about segmenting this menopausal population but in fact women can start to go through or have menopausal symptoms in the late 30s early 40s you know by by definition before 40 is early,
but around that timeframe, those symptoms can be vague and concerning. And if we weren’t just looking at it as menopause, but we were looking at it as transition and hormonal change,
we would be able to help identify some of those concerns that may be related to hormones in later life, but happening at time frame.
that weren’t necessarily immediately recognizable as menopause. What would you suggest for a woman who may work for a smaller company, doesn’t necessarily know the benefit policies,
but is just not able to complete a full workday, whether it be heavy bleeding, hot flashes, brain fog, you know, brain fog is such a severe,
you know, know, side effect for women who are in very, you know, whether they be an accountant, a lawyer, there’s doctor, there’s so many facets where the brain fog can really create almost a fear of going to work because you don’t know what’s going to happen for those women who may not know about a policy in place,
but they’re afraid to go to HR because they don’t want to kind of red flag it. What can they do to… to find out more? Yeah, absolutely. And I’d love to hit some of the stats,
you know, in this area, we know that a third of women are affected in their work performance. We know that 40 % miss work due to symptoms. You’re talking about, you know,
metapause midlife symptoms, but even backtracking to men or Raja or heavy cycles or changing menstrual cycles, all those menstrual related issues. We know that 30 % miss work due to symptoms. We know that 30 % miss work due to symptoms. We know that 30 % miss work due to symptoms. We know that 30 % miss work due to symptoms. We know that 30 % miss work due to symptoms. one in five women are actually turning down
promotions because of their menopausal symptoms. One in five women are thinking of leaving the workforce because of their menopausal symptoms. And but over 40%, like we even creeping up to half or feeling like they’re not getting the support.
So the woman that you describe in that small organization is, you know, a large number of women are in that situation, whether it’s a large large or small organization.
And so I would recommend for that woman that she, first of all, seek out help from supportive colleagues, because we always can, women are really good at amplifying each other.
And we all, although our experiences are unique, we all have some shared experiences and real, in general, compassion and empathetic heart. to sort of lock arms with each other.
And I think a woman’s going to feel a lot more heard if she’s able to bring along others. Now there are many women who are in the only woman in their office. That’s very common in our country.
And there has to be an advocacy with leadership. So if a woman’s alone or if she brings others along for the conversation. you know,
we really need to be having open dialogue and transparent conversations. I’m not able to make it through my work day because of brain fog, fatigue. I’m not able to sleep at night.
These are symptoms that are impacting my work. They’re impacting my efficiency. And quite honestly, they’re impacting the ROI of this organization. If we don’t do something about it for me and the,
you know, 40 ,000 ,000 ,000 ,000 ,000 ,000 ,000 ,000. of our workforce that are being impacted, the company is just not going to continue to, you know, thrive the way that it has been when women were,
you know, not experiencing those symptoms. Right. You know, we’ve heard from different guests that we’ve had about people who have left their job, where they felt that their brain fog was interfering so badly.
Whether it be a very high finance. position or something where they’re dealing with people’s lives in medicine, where they were very scared that their brain fog would either send them to jail if they messed up on something financially or,
you know, hurt someone. Send them to jail if they hurt somebody. Somebody too. That’s right. That’s Colleen’s lawyer hat going on. Either way, they end up in jail.
Either way, in jail. And so, but I mean, we have heard about this. and it is just so terrible and sad that it’s not recognized with insurance. And I know a lot of women,
you know, if you’re employed, hopefully you have some insurance, but a lot of women don’t have insurance. What in the way of menopausal care? If you give us what things are insured,
maybe what things are not included in insurance for menopausal care. care. Oh, wow. So that is a massive question. You know,
first of all, on the prison system, I think I will mention that I did a clinic in the prison system for years and years and years as part of the university that I worked with and the inmates are insured.
So going to prison actually means you would get menopausal care. Oh, there you go. There’s an option. option, everybody. – Not a good, not a good, and our inmates need to be seen and heard and get,
you know, – Yes, yes. – to have positive care, but, you know, the other thing that made me think when you said that was, you talk a lot about all the symptoms that aren’t recognizable,
and what about, you know, joint aches and pains, and not, you know, not just the fatigue and the brain fog, but, you know, really feeling unwell, almost flu -like. almost,
you know, arthritic. And so a lot of these symptoms, they come on feeling like, you know, there’s something really seriously wrong with me, and I don’t know what it is, and menopause is the last thing on my mind,
you know, I really think I’m going to die here. So I think it’s important we recognize those symptoms are holding people back, you know, surgeons, people who are working with their hands, people who are having to stand for long hours,
in terms of, you know, of what’s covered, it’s really such a broad range depending on what insurance company, depending on whether someone has insurance.
We know that a huge portion, probably 20 million people in our population are uninsured. So menopause, in my experience, both as a provider and as a patient,
is that it’s very poorly. poorly covered. So we know that menopause requires a lot of explaining what’s happening, what symptoms am I having,
how is it impacting my life, the whole gamut of symptoms so that a provider can isolate, you know, is this menopause or are there other workups that I need to be thinking about doing? And that takes time.
And unfortunately insurance, no matter which insurance it is, this doesn’t pay for doctors to… to spend that time that is absolutely required at this stage of life for people to have that important conversation.
And that is one of the reasons that I have shifted away from the quick 15 minute clinical visit to what women really need, especially at the midlife stage,
is that ongoing conversation. To be able to say, I feel crazy. I’ve spoken to… three other doctors. I don’t know what’s going on with me. And if I don’t get this fixed, my marriage is gonna break down.
I’m going to leave my job or lose my job.” And frankly, I might end up in a car accident because my brain fog is so bad and I can’t sleep. So these are things that should be insured and are very poorly insured.
So the nitty gritty is, if you go in to see your doctor, there may be a conversation visit, but it doesn’t pay very well. Doctors are paid much better to go off and do surgeries and procedures.
And that is not where this care needs to be provided. It really needs to be provided in a back and forth conversation where a provider can have really delve into what is impacting you,
how are you impacted by this and then how… can we get you the help that you need? I will say, lab tests are probably covered by most insurance if someone has insurance. However,
lab tests aren’t required to diagnose menopause. And so other lab tests that would rule out other things, thyroid disorders, or other autoimmune or inflammatory issues,
but the actual diagnosis of menopause doesn’t require lab testing. It requires a conversation. Absolutely. With the forward -thinking companies that you are working with,
what are some examples of things they are putting in place to address the needs of menopausal and perimenopausal women? Yeah. So, as we were talking about policies,
looking at what’s already in existence and ensuring that it is inclusive and that it includes… verbiage that doesn’t, so you know, going through what those standards of practice look like and making sure that the verbiage includes all ages,
all people, all women or women or female identifying people and just ensuring that whatever is in place feels like it is broad enough to be having those conversations in a gender equity.
open context transparent way. I have had organizations really interested in implementing new policies and practices.
And what we hear women wanting most or speaking to their leadership about most is flexibility. And really that rises to the top of every conversation. I really just need a flexibility.
And I often think about even myself at work, I am a fifth. plus year old woman. And I know that when I need a little break, it’s not that I’m going for coffee. It’s not that I’m lazy.
It’s not that I’m not, it’s really that I need a rest so that I can come back full strength and do the work that I know I need to do. In general, we are at a stage in our lives where we want to be contributing.
And if we can do that in a way that allows us to flex and flow with our physiology. we will be more effective. Yes, and I, you know, really, with the lockdown,
it showed that that was possible. That with Zoom and with different, you know, telehealth and everything out there, just whatever you do for work, it is possible.
Some of it’s not like I was a teacher. That part’s probably hard, like elementary school teacher. Oh yeah. Yeah, but it is possible. to have more flexibility in your life And and that is so important another thing that I really liked about Pandia help that I noticed that you really try to serve The underserved and that is so important so many women at this time of life have gone through a job loss a divorce Something
where their financial situation is not as good. Can you talk about how you how it pan Pandia Health they help the underserved? Yes so we know that we’re talking about while women at all ages and stages or midlife women specifically there’s been a real commercialization of women’s health care and it’s something that just really irks me and I know Sophia Yen are our co -found at Pandia Health,
because she, as well, is a medical provider, certified pediatric endocrinologist. And what we hope to bring,
what we do bring, is evidence -based science -backed care that is accessible to everyone, accessible both in the fact that if you have a device and internet,
you can get access to care, or access to care. care and hormonal care across all ages. So contraceptive care, menopausal care, and specific to women,
female identifying, and also accessible from an economic point of view. So cost -effective, contraception, cost -effective, menopause consultation,
cost -effective, menopausal hormone therapy, delivered right to your door. doorstep, and to be reassured that it’s evidence -based care, FDA -approved options, because we really,
as women, need to be so careful about what we’re being offered that may be, I’m gonna say cheap, I don’t, I’m gonna, I’d like to say that what Pandia offers is cost -effective,
because it really has to be that high -quality FDA -approved options, regimes, but, but other things are frankly cheap and potentially not science backed and can tote whatever they want because they’re not regulated in the same way.
And that hurts my heart. I think women really need the very best care and Pandia is able to offer that in an accessible way. Which I think also is important because,
you know, when we’re talking about women in the workplace as well. as we were saying, a lot of companies don’t have any support system in place. But, you know, if it’s a smaller company and they can’t,
they don’t have formal policies, then Pandia would also be a great place for women to kind of say, okay, I can at least look here for support, guidance, and perhaps some examples of whether it be flex days or work share or whether to take time off or leave.
What has the response been with the companies that you work with? Have they found that it’s been beneficial to put these programs in place? Oh,
100%. Women are responding in really incredible ways because, again, for the first time, they’ve been heard. They’ve been understood.
understood and they’re seeing, a lot of women creeping up into 50, 60, getting to retirement age, they have wisdom. They have experience.
They wanna share with their younger colleagues. They don’t wanna be felt invisible or pushed out. And to bring a program like this and open dialogue and supportive conversations,
it really allows the women with the wealthiest of expertise and wisdom to share that and really elevate the entire the entire workforce. And so the the work,
the workforces that are able to do this really do unleash the women in their organization to be helping and supporting and amplifying, mirroring and sponsoring each other in pretty profound ways.
And that comes back to a question you asked earlier Colleen around, you know, what what can people put in place, those policies, those procedures, you know, standards of practice,
but also support groups. And with the, with the virtual, you know, Bridget, you’re talking about the virtual programming that has now become almost normalized. We’re able to have support even if we’re in a small workforce and there’s only a couple of women.
And there are support networks that women can start having bigger conversations, you know. you know, we’re not going to answer everything today and so women have lots of questions and to have someone that they can talk to or people that they can talk to,
education that they can access, support groups are really important for organizations and women when they connect on something like this, they also connect on their work projects and their brain share around other areas of productivity that they can bring back into…
their actual job, which is also an elevation of what’s happening at the workplace. – Right. It sounds like a great sense of community too,
which is so important in other aspects, like longevity that there’s a whole other aspect there as well. And so this is available, Pandia Health is available throughout the United States,
is that correct? correct? It is. It’s available in most states. Please don’t make me quote which states. Not most states just yet, but very, very close.
And it’s available to women as individuals. So, menopause, or sorry, pandiahhealth .com. And there’s a menopause tabs, or you can just do slash menopause.
And join a VIP list. And ultimately for individuals, there’s a consultation and intake consultation for them to take and it’s viewed by a provider,
a medical provider on the other end with a back and forth conversation, which is essential to really honing in on that diagnosis and that person’s needs for employers,
for workplaces or organizations who are stepping into this in a new way, reach out to us. us at Pandia Health because we would love to have a very customizable conversation around what that workforce needs.
Every employer really potentially wants something different for their organization. It’s not a paintbrush. It’s not necessarily a five week digital program that’s gonna fix everything.
It needs to be a conversation around, you know, what’s the demographic in your… workforce? What do we want to also be talking about some of the hormones at a younger stage? Do we have women who are wanting to understand menopause even though they’re in their 20s and 30s?
And we’re seeing that a lot. And you know, what are the real pain points in an organization that has created this need for them to reach out?
It would be nice if every organization did, but the ones that reach out are generally looking for something and we can tailor what’s provided to that organization.
– ‘Cause even the smallest organizations made up of two or three people can use the resources. Like you can at least say to an employee, here’s some research, here’s Pandia Health.
You can look up on there and get your questions answered. So it’s great to have that. that resource so that no one feels like, well, my company’s not going to address my situation because there’s only,
you know, 10 employees, they’re not going to have a formal policy. What trend, since you’ve been working with companies, and I know this is really a new kind of discussion that a lot of companies are having,
what would you say is kind of the trend you’re seeing with menopause in the workplace? Like, where do you see it going? in the next couple of years? Well, ideally,
it becomes just part of the support. And, you know, as we elevate the conversation around care and compassionate care and conversation for midlife and menopause and perimenopause and beyond,
we’re also elevating the conversation around women’s health and gender equity. and it would be really amazing if we had a workforce and a world where those conversations were just mainstay and no taboo,
no stigma, let’s just talk about what women need so that women can be doing their very best and living their best life and making their genius contribution.
You know, you think about that. that, that I’m hoping, you know, 30, 40 years ago, pregnancy and having maternity leave and having things like that,
we’re not part of the workforce. I mean, teachers used to, it’s like you got pregnant, goodbye, you’re over, you’re done, goodbye. And so my wish is,
like Pandia Health as well, is to see this just to be, I just, a normal thing. Well, of course this is here. Of course maternity leave’s here, of course access to reproductive rights and birth control is here.
And of course workplace care for menopausal care is just part of our system. So that’s my hope too. – Yeah, and foundationally, yeah and foundationally to that feeding that is the research.
And we know that’s been in the mainstream. media lately, you know, that we’re really leaning into, or the US is really leaning into research that is gender specific,
so that we really know more of the answers to more of the questions. And that’s a vital foundational piece to the dream world that you envision there,
Bridgette, for sure. Right. I know that Bridgette and I have said many times that England is just further along in the menopause discussion and there are now policies in place.
They’ve had discussions at parliament. Do you see any federal guidelines now that they’re putting money into menopause research? Do you think there’s a possibility that they will have some federal guidelines to protect women in the workplace?
– I see us walking in that direction. And yes, I’m glad you raised that point that the UK is. ahead of the US. They absolutely are,
and there are a lot of resources online out of the UK, the House of Commons, like you said, they meet, they have standards that are country -wide, and they’re able to do that because they’re a national healthcare system,
they’re sort of a standardized in many aspects of what they do in the UK. But what I’ve seen coming up… of the US over the last couple of months in women’s health and gender specific research and looking toward a future for the foundational pieces of women’s health,
you know, at a federal level, seems to be walking in that direction. And if we can continue taking that journey, that would be lovely. That would be…
I’m trying to think of a word that just, that would just be what we should expect. – Yeah, right, we should. It should be there. – As I like to say,
it’s something that our kids should be able to take for granted, that it’s just that. – Exactly, there it is. It’s something we should be able to take for granted. That’s right, it’s through our daughters and nieces and children.
– Right, exactly, the next generation. – Anyone with a uterus? and the next generation. – Yes, or who identifies as a female. Let’s just, yeah,
let’s let that happen. I just want to tell you. – And our boys, right? – Yeah, such incredible male allies who are towing the line with us.
And that is so required. I’m glad that we raised that conversation because that is a lot of where the change is. – As men are still outnumbering women. in the workforce and men who are who are helping to advance these vital gendered programs are going to be the people that really help us make the change.
Exactly. I wanted to add to Pandia Health’s website. I just found really great, you know, the descriptors on there. And can you talk about the prescriptions that are available on there?
I mean, I know you touched on it earlier, but after was just looking at it saying, oh, this is so nice that it’s on there. Can you talk a little bit about what is available through prescription? Yeah,
this is the incredible thing about Pandia Health and the way that Dr. Yan has set it up, there are no limits. If you can get a prescription, you know, if it is a prescription,
it is available. Question just becomes what it is that is appropriate. and what it is that is within the realm of what a patient wants to pay for or is able to pay for or has insurance to pay for.
And again, shipped right to the patient’s home, which is incredible and on an auto ship, so you never forget. But the really amazing thing about Pandia Health is that it covers that whole age range.
All the ages. and stages. And so it started with contraception and has expanded into menopause. And so there are so many different birth control pills and birth control pills actually serve a perimenopausal population in a really incredible way by lightening cycles,
making cycles more regular. It’s an estrogen and progesterone that we’re used to taking throughout our lives, our reproductive lives if we use that for birth control or cycle regulation. And so that can…
continue all the way to the average age of menopause, which is 51, if a woman wants to use that form of hormone for her symptom control. And then all of the menopausal hormone therapies that are available anywhere else.
So what I recommend, and I’m not sure, you know, your listeners probably like, well, what, what, what, I always recommend bio identical estrogen in the the form of a patch because that’s transdermal.
It’s the safest. It doesn’t create, you know, more clotting risk. And a progesterone, bio identical progesterone only comes in a pill that you, I always recommend people take at night because it’s calming and helps people sleep.
So the standard regime would be a patch and a progesterone patch and a progesterone pill, but absolutely anything is available. So you can get estrogen and progesterone together.
in a patch, you can get them together in a pill, sort of like a birth control pill, but in menopausal dosing, you can get very many modes of delivery and dosage regimes titrated to what each person needs.
– Thank you so much, Dr. Catherine Hanson. We appreciate you coming on the show and talking about menopause in the workplace. a topic that is just getting started. And we look forward to companies starting to address the needs of women in our demographics.
So thank you so much for coming on. Well, thanks so much for having me, Colleen and Bridget. It’s been an absolute pleasure. And thank you for raising awareness for women around these vital topics so we can be out living our best lives.
It’s true. (upbeat music)