Dean Butler: EPISODE LINK
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Summary: On this week’s episode, we are speaking with actor, director and producer Dean Butler. Dean played Almonzo Wilder, Laura Ingalls Wiilder’s husband on the hit series Little House on the Prairie. Dean shares stories from Little House, his relationships with Melissa Gilbert and Michael Landon and of his artistic career. He also talks about the recent 50th Anniversary celebration of Little House.
TRANSCRIPT:
And I think we’re very fortunate that we had a group of people who were willing to be adaptive, able to be adaptive and, you know, and step in and solve problems.
But, you know, there were long lines, long lines. Long, I mean the first morning when we started on Friday morning there was a line half a mile down the street of people waiting to get in to the event and this was it was like oh my god we hit the lottery here for us staging an event like this was completely outside the boundaries of what had ever been attempted before and,
you know, people came and loved it. And, uh, it was just an incredible gratification for all of us.
we were on the, we were in a communication yesterday and just said it’s so far she never expected it to be as well as hugely attended as it was and she didn’t expect the scope of it to be what it was.
As much as we told her what it was going to be, I think it surprised her. When she walked onto Big Sky Ranch and saw the tableau of Laura,
Mary and Kerry running down the hill that was spring grass was coming up and the mannequins. So this wasn’t live action. These were mannequins. It was still life and it was just beautiful, idyllic, still life. And right across the road was the little house and barn right there, full -scale size of what they had been two -dimensional, not three -dimensional, but people could look across there. The only thing that was missing was Plum Creek because Plum Creek had been carved out, you know, and Plum Creek was turned on with a spigot to run, you know, during the show. It was completely controlled. So there was none of that there. But the location was, it was magical. I mean, to see the look on fans faces And to see the look on Melissa’s face, and Karen’s face, and Allison Ongren’s face, who had not, because they went up there with Good Morning America and the cameras are rolling and you know, they’re taking all this in, that was just, that was incredibly gratifying because I know that, you know, obviously no one was there more than Melissa as a cast member. She did every episode, even Michael Landon didn’t do every episode. Melissa did every episode. No one was as vested in this as she was in terms of that. To see her loving it was just, you know,
warm, warm place to see that happen.
I think there are going to be some really wonderful events throughout the remainder of this year in different parts of the country. There’s going to be a beautiful 50th anniversary event in Walnut Grove in July, and there’s going to be a first time East Coast event in Connecticut and another one in Lancaster, Pennsylvania at the end of September early or end of August early September. I think that’s going to be incredibly well attended.
We’ve never done a little house event on the East Coast before. – Well, thank you, ’cause we’d all like to have one over here. (laughs) – Oh, there you go. Now, we were in Nashville this last year.
We did a river boat cruise right there in Opryland and all of that, we had a great time. We had on the river boat and you know, we told stories and sang songs and it was, it was fun. Since I’m one of the clueless people who didn’t know that, where can people find out the information of where the events are There’s, well, okay. And this is, this is awful, Colleen, I, the, I, there are Facebook pages. Okay. There’s a little house,
a little house fan events, Facebook page. There is a company that does a lot of our events around the country is a company called Gravel Road Productions and they are searchable.
I need to get that for you for your notes. – Oh, thank you. I’ll make sure it’s in the show notes. I’ll do a little research.
We all came into it in a different way. We’re all part of it. We’re all part of this family, but we all bring our individual lives and experiences to what we are doing on the program.
And so I just realized, well, if I’m willing to step in with some of that, then I can offer a unique perspective and in totality people get a better sense of who I am and if they’re interested in that and you know so it just made sense this was the time. I started in January of 2023 and early January 5 a .m. at my dining room table with a cup of hot coffee every morning and the And I turned in my first draft on July 31st,
and now we’re just days away from watching this. Right. And that must be, you know, you really committed, okay, for six months, I’m going to relive my life story,
which I thought, you know, as I was reading your book,
I hate, I don’t like to think that I was mannered, but I certainly was well mannered. Well mannered, okay. Mannered is a different thing, you know, but being well mannered, yeah, I was raised to be, I definitely was raised to be a considerate, polite, respectful, young man. No question. I mean, that was a huge measuring bar for anyone in my family. But as the oldest of my generation, I got was expected in how we were to operate how I was to operate in the world and I think I got those messages pretty clearly and I have to tell you Colleen I’m so grateful for the messages I got they have all I mean okay maybe I wasn’t the coolest guy around you know I wasn’t that I wasn’t the bad guy I wasn’t uh or or the I was pretty good all the time because that was the expectation that was that was more important in my family and maybe not in my best interests at some time but it but that was more important than the grades I got in school that was more that was more important than anything else I grew up being told when I went off to school my teachers were the boss And my teachers would be backed up in if there was a debate about what went on in the classroom, the teacher’s opinion was going to carry the day on that. So I better be respectful of my teachers in the classroom. And I got that full dose of that. And I took that very seriously. And, you know, whether that’s, you know, I don’t know if that’s the perfect message. You mean, but it was a message that I got and it’s a message that I respected. I have to say, overall, it served me really well. ‘Cause I definitely learned to respect people who needed, who required respect. And I’m not a rebellious type. No, no question about that. I’m not a rebel with that foundation.
the second people lay eyes on us. And your casting decisions are generally made in about eight seconds when someone walks in door because people who are charged with making those decisions and look they go on a lot longer they don’t just look at you wait for eight seconds to say you’re hired but I think what does happen is people know very quickly if you could be right or if you’re not right and that decision is
just I think that’s instantaneous and I think that’s very human. So when you come in the door, you just, you hopefully bring the , you know, you do bring your best self, you really can’t control it. I mean, it’s like, you bring what you bring. That’s just on you, you’ve got, and I think when I was that age, I didn’t really understand that, which is probably a good thing. You know, I just came in the door as they, you know, as a, you know, a senior in college, I came down, I flew down to Los Angeles for this meeting, did the meeting. And I behaved the way I behaved in any meeting, I came in,
I shook hands, I, you know, how do you do? I sat down, answered questions as I was asked them, read as well as I could, you know, with the material that I was given had a really nice communicative exchange with the casting director Susan Soukman and that was the start of it and when I came back to meet with Michael after two other meetings with Susan You know, he was just great sitting in the room. I mean, you know, this was big -time television star. You’re walking in the door He radiated Big television star. I probably you know, I was wearing a probably a you know a button -down dress shirt and You know like a like a blue dress shirt Brooks Brothers button -down shirt and maybe jeans but probably you know my Yeah, probably jeans for a meeting like that, but I think probably my first meeting with Susan It was a blue blazer and tacky pants and a button -down shirt and I was coming in for a job interview I wasn’t coming in so I was coming into person and I think she saw That I sort of that I walked in in a very particular way and Sat and talked to her as a respectful young person coming in to get a job. So that’s, you know, when I read from your agent say, don’t act, whatever you do, don’t, I mean, I was just going to say the, the before the last meeting,
I got a call. It just sort of flipped me out, but it’s I got a call saying, whatever you do when you meet with Michael, don’t act. And that sort of put me sideways for a minute because I’m thinking,
well, wait a minute, I am coming in to be an actor on this show. What am I going to do if I’m not acting? You know, it’s always a little flipped out by that. You know, in retrospect, it was a great direction to get. And really it was just saying, be yourself. I mean, that’s really, I think there are exceptions to this, but most of the time, I think actors are hired in the film world, film and television world because of their essential personalities. I mean, that’s why they’re hired. And when you’re, ’cause when you’re on camera doing a series, you can’t hide from who you are. You know, the audience is going to see who you are. And it won’t take long because the camera just sees right into your soul, and if there’s something that’s inauthentic going on, the audience knows that as they’re watching. They may not know what’s wrong or why it’s not right, but don’t know something’s not right. And I think Michael Landon was a master at just being real in front of the camera. He was so likable and charming and common sense and all of that along with all of his obvious aesthetic talent that he had and he was great to look at, you know, all of that, but he was so comfortable, he was so comfortable in being himself in front of the camera. And that’s really what it was, that’s really what it’s all about. I mean, every actor is being themselves. They may be, you know, tapping into certain parts, different parts of themselves in different roles that they’re playing,
but essentially you’re always being yourself, because that’s what we have. We have ourselves to work with and to present.
I just think because I think we, Little House will be watched for many, many years, has been watched and will be watched for many years because it just reflects something that is honest and aspirational about human behavior. You look at Little House and you see people who are fundamentally good and decent people trying to live the best lives that they can in circumstances which,
well, certainly visually on television are, were idealically beautiful, but also filled with a certain kind of challenge that people could relate to and understand. And how we, what little house showed over and over and over again is there is a graceful way to live. There is a generous, decent way to live. And that message was delivered in episode after episode after episode. And I think it’s so primal. You just know it’s right when you watch it. I mean, When people cry watching Little House, it’s not, yes, there are sad tears, but there are a lot of tears of joy that people cry when they watch Little House.
And I think that’s because Little House touches you where you know it’s good. And there is affirmation of goodness. And there’s also consequence for bad behavior. You know, we had the Olsen family, we had Mrs. Olsen and Nelly, who were the perfect prim and proper examples for the community of Walnut Grove of how not to behave. And it was really clear, you know, when you knew inevitably that they were going to make a bad decision, or a self -serving decision, or a selfish, conniving decision. And that was established, and you knew that, and they always got what was coming to them. And it wasn’t like catastrophic. They always lived to tell the tale, and hopefully they learned something in the process of of what they did wrong, but they were gonna be right there to do it wrong again next week and the audience came to count on that. And of them were other certainly antagonistic characters in the series that were guest stars and so on, but the core antagonists in “Little House” were a shopkeeper and her snooty daughter. And that was sort of interesting in and of itself,
that you could build this drama around two characters that you look at and say well these are pretty benign people. I mean these aren’t menacing looking people but they could create all kinds of problems and it was and it was really fun.
we, Michael did not spend a lot of time or focus on justifying bad behavior. You know, good behavior was good behavior and not good behavior was not good behavior.
And when people made mistakes, they figured it out or they were helped to figure it out by a helpful loving voice in their lives. And of course that’s the role that Michael and Karen played as mother and father in the situation. They were the voices of experience and goodness and yet though not perfect people themselves they were everyone was capable of making mistakes I Think in little house. It was how people recovered from their mistakes how people learn from their mistakes that was really at the core of why it was so beautiful because Everyone is capable of goodness and everyone is capable of, and this is true, not there, but not just there, but everywhere, we all have in us the potential for the full range of human behavior. And it’s really on us to choose how we’re going to act in the world. And Little House was a wonderful example for people of how potentially to act in a way that is not only good for you, but good for your community, good for your family, good for your classmates, just good for the energy in the world. And I think we need that today more than we’ve ever needed it before in my opinion, not to get into that at all. – No, but it’s– – That’s a really important thing. – There’s a reason why it still resonates. I mean, and I think that that plays a very large part in it.
you say she wasn’t as excited about everything but it’s a job and she was professional and she did her job. How was it for you to do that? Yeah, I think I think we both did our jobs and you know we’ve spoken about this this is the we are because of this show Melissa and I are will always be connected to each other you know, as Laura and Almanzo, I mean, just we always will be. And we’ve had so many conversations about this. You know, even, you know, back in, certainly back in that time, there were lots of times when people, producers did chemistry reads with people, and, you know, you’d bring a bunch of actors into the room.
And when a couple of years later, when I did a guest shot on “Who’s the Boss?” and had to do a scene where I was gonna have to go in or the scene called for the actor to kiss Catherine Hellman.
It was a young man, older woman relationship. For those callbacks, Catherine Hellman was in the room. She kissed everybody. That was going to find out who she was going to kiss on camera.
Glad it was me that she chose. Melissa had no opportunity to meet me beforehand. I really believe if Melissa had had a chance to meet me beforehand and would have had been given a voice by Michael that I wouldn’t have been hired. I mean she really was expecting, she knew there was an age difference between the characters, she’d read the books. I mean, you know, when they got married, well,
they were always 10 years apart. So 18 and 28, when they actually got married, that was sort of an acceptable thing then. But for Melissa, okay, even if she had just that three years more going for her, there’s a huge difference for a young woman between 15 and And that’s a big difference that’s, you know, that’s happening. And for a young guy, 50, you know, whatever, that three years is a big deal too. So 15 and 23 was really a chasms difference between us in terms of life experience and physical maturity and like, you know, all of that. But I think that Well, Melissa I think was and she has talked about this a lot and I didn’t I wasn’t aware of it at the time, but she was not happy. She never betrayed that to me. I think that that would have really, I think, been a real challenge for me as to how to manage that she’s gratefully did. Look, I knew she wasn’t happy every moment, but I didn’t ever pin it to her not being happy with me personally, that being intimidated by me or whether she wanted someone, hoped it would be someone who was 18 and more her age kind of thing,
I never got any of that. Melissa was always totally professional outwardly towards me. So that was a really, you know, a lucky break that that was the case. ‘Cause I think that really would have put this app on me. With her power within the show, as the really, me, Michael was the star of the show, but it was her story. So– – So you’re saying it’s good that you didn’t– – Well -behaved young man, that would have been a problem for me to feel like the woman I’m supposed to be acting with, or a young woman, really didn’t like me. – Right. – Yeah, I mean, that would have been a big deal for me.
And why not? He had an absolute, I think a crystal clear take on who the show’s audience was and what they wanted from the program, what they expected from him and from all of us. And he gave it to them. And I, you know, I could never be grateful enough that he saw me as someone who could make a positive contribution to the program. And it’s been the gift of a lifetime, calling it really truly is.
Yeah. it was to it was, it was challenging at times. You know, I can say this though. When you were doing the work with him. And you You know, so the challenges were not between as much as there was,
you know, there was this sort of discomfort with Charles with his age. I mean, Michael played that up, you know, that he magnified that by saying, you know, this man, this man, he talked about the difference between Almanzo and his daughter, Laura. But Doing the work with him was always good, other than maybe one occasion when I was a little over exuberant. – When he threw you against the barn. (laughs) – When he threw me across the barn. Yeah, but it was, I would have, you know, in a very, you know, really well heartfelt way. I wish I’d known him, I wish I’d been able to know him better. Now, part of that’s me, part of that’s him. I mean, I was who I was at that time, and he was my boss, he was the star of the program, he was the executive producer of the program, he was the lead director of the program, and he was the head writer of the program. So you are dealing with everyone, all, not just me, but all of us in Michael, we’re dealing with the four biggest tats, the four biggest jobs that exist on any television program. So you just,
you do not wanna get sideways with those people. You know, you wanna be on a positive, a positive, collaborative, encouraging, in an encouraging relationship, mutually encouraging relationship with those people. So, you know, that became the task is, you know, you want to stay good with somebody. Michael was so knowledgeable about everything that he was doing that I just wanted to be a sponge and soak it all up.
And I would have loved to have had those conversations with him about why he did what he did and how he did. But he didn’t really have time for all that. He was so busy doing everything that he was doing to make the show successful that he didn’t have time for a lot of personal interaction. He needed us to trust that he was going to make it okay and we needed to go along with his program. And I think, you know,
we all did because we could see the results of what he was doing. The first time I watched the program was an episode in season five during the summer. And it was the two -parter with Ray Bolger. And I think I was looking at part, and I didn’t know what episode it was. I didn’t see it from the very beginning, but Ray Bolger was the guest and seeing the charm of his performance and how everybody interacted with him and the beautiful music and the photography that was so beautiful. I just thought, “Oh, am I lucky to be a part of this?” I just didn’t know how good it was until I saw how good it was from my old,
you know, I mean, Ina can tell me, this is a great show, you’re gonna, this is so important, you’re gonna do this. But until you see it and feel it yourself, you really don’t know how good it is.
And wow, watching those episodes during that summer of 1979 as I’m shooting and then watching reruns on Monday nights. I mean, imagine the days of reruns when we actually watched summer reruns,
you know, all that’s gone. It was just like each with each episode, it was, I can’t believe I’m a part of this. This is this that I’m gonna get to be, this is amazing. And so while I didn’t have a close friendship with Michael that I would have liked to have had. And I think that all of us would have liked to have had. Really, the kids had probably the closest thing to genuine friendships with Michael because the kids didn’t want anything from him. You know, the kids were just being kids. They were just doing their, they were just there and Michael could be fun and light and easy with them. You know, the reality is that as adults in the situation or as professionals, we all wanted something from Michael. We all wanted good scripts. We all wanted to, we wanted to be, you know, we wanted to be paid well. We wanted to be,
you know, you’re, it’s a different dynamic between adults with your boss and kids with their boss. Michael could just be their buddy. We could not, He could not just be buddies with all the older people. He could be affable and funny until great stories. He was wonderful that way. But there were very few times when he was really gonna talk straight to you because he just didn’t have time for that.
But when he did talk straight to you, you listened. You by God listened when he– – You definitely got the feel of that from your book that when he turned serious, that was it, you knew it.
And it was like, okay, everybody fall in line here, this is what we’re gonna do. Which I guess, now that you do a lot of producing and directing, you’re kind of behind the camera doing that.
want to let them do it and if if you have doubts about their ability to do it then you you have to make a change I mean either I mean, either you have to commit yourself to trying to fix that situation,
or you need to make a change and put someone in a position, ’cause there’s nothing worse than for someone who’s working with you to feel like they’re not, to feel like you’re not doing the job in an acceptable way is a very anxiety -provoking thing, not only for the person who is doing that job and can feel that they are not making people happy, but it’s also anxiety -provoking for the people who are responsible for you being there because they have to fix it all the time or do the best they can do to fix it. So you don’t wanna be in a situation where you’re having to fix all the time. You wanna put people in positions where you trust them and you allow them to do the work that they are hired to do. And, you know, you, you can make adjustments, talk to people about making adjustments to what they do, but fundamentally you want people to do what they do. And, and you do not want to, you don’t want to feel like you’re having to make wholesale changes in, in their approach to their work. So, you know, as Kent McCray, our producer, said hire the best and let them do their jobs. And that’s– – That’s great advice. – That’s really what it’s all about, yeah.
that’s the– But still, now you’re working with teenagers again. 30 What was how different was it because you’re dealing with a different generation of kids? Yeah, that’s really a good point. What was that like? Well, it was great. I mean one well those kids who were playing teenagers weren’t teenagers right now it’s all in their you know they were they were all more experienced kids and that’s part of what made them so effective in the program is they had this sort of worldwide vibe about them where they were, you know, they knew more than the average teenager knows. And, you know, in Little House, the teenagers, the kids really were teenagers and kids. So there was a certain authenticity about that. And I think that that it speaks to the difference in the way that we tell stories about our culture now, you know, we Now, we don’t necessarily,
I mean, I think we appreciate innocence, but we’re so much more nuanced than that. Characters, everyone’s questioning all the time. And Buffy, there was a lot of questioning going on about what is happening to us. What is this world we’re in? And they’re having to deal with some really you know, some bizarre circumstances around them. And so they have to be a little bit, you know, maybe a little glib and a little worldwide and a little sassy to, you know, to deal with what they’re dealing with. And that’s, you know, how telling, the storytelling, or the voices of the storytelling evolved.
I thought Buffy, you know, as I watched it, what a smart show. Smart, edgy, clever show, great performances, loved that cast. I mean, I didn’t spend a lot of time with that group of people, but wow, when you watched them, you went, you just had to say, this is a really smart group of people and a talented group of people. They knew what they were there to do and they did it. And Joss Whedon, who was, you know, Buffy’s Michael Landon, so intuitive about youth culture. And He, you know, the voices, the voices of youth, he had really clearly in his head. And, you know,
he made those voices really smart and clever and edgy and irreverent at times. And, you know, and it was fun. It was just, it was fun to watch because you just didn’t, These people were these kids were really smart people dealing with unusual circumstances Right again another binge -worthy show. Yeah.
I’m gonna be out a lot of weekends and signing this book from the time it comes out through the end of the year. And we will make at my social media official, Dean Butler, which is on Facebook and Instagram, and TikTok, we will keep people informed. And there will be others, you know, Kensington publishing who does the book, they will be keeping people informed. Colleen, grateful to be able to sit with you and so many people who do what you do to talk about the book and we’ll be sharing what we’re doing as we go along Hope you’ll, you know, link to our, to the various sites that– – Absolutely, we’ll have that in our show notes. – Yeah, but I’ll be out there. There’ll be a book signing event on the day it releases in CME Valley, California. Two days later on the 27th, there’ll be a book signing event at The Grove in Southern California at Barnes and Noble at The Grove. I’ll be in San Diego the next day and it just goes boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. I’m gonna be out there a lot.
The show notes will have the link to you website so people can kind of link to the publisher. And best of luck with the book. Thank you so much for coming on today. Colleen, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.
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