https://mcdn.podbean.com/mf/web/mn8dpb/SSfinal_-_10_23_22_820_PM8hyp5.mp3
EPISODE SUMMARY:
As a specialist in ADHD, anxiety, and narcissistic abuse, Dr. Stephanie Sarkis is a psychotherapist using her expertise to help clients lead better, happier lives. In today’s episode, we sat down with Dr. Sarkis to discuss the difference between gaslighting and narcissism, the different kinds of narcissistic relationships, tips for escaping narcissistic abuse, and how to leave a narcissistic marriage in midlife.
First, we asked Dr. Sarkis about the differences between gaslighting and narcissism. She explained to us that gaslighting is a form of abuse used by narcissists involving trying to convince someone that their version of reality isn’t correct. When talking about narcissism, it’s important to note that while everyone may have some narcissistic traits, those with narcissistic personality disorder believe that they are superior to others and deserve special treatment. There are different kinds of narcissists, including covert and overt. Covert narcissists are people whose narcissism may not be picked up on right away. They’re sneaker, initially acting pious and like they have high moral standards. However, when you try to set boundaries with a covert narcissist, that is when they can go into a rage. For overt narcissists, they are flashier with their traits. They want to be noticed and believe that their needs are more important than those of others. Narcissists can be found in a plethora of different relationship dynamics, from platonic to romantic to familial. In the workplace, a narcissistic employer may purposefully keep you late or try sabotaging your career. Narcissistic parents with children will have a “golden child” and a scapegoat, and the child they treat better will shift depending on which child they believe is fulfilling their needs the best. These kinds of dynamics can lead to not only parental issues but problems between siblings as they get older. In romantic relationships, narcissistic abusers will start out love bombing their partner. The abuse is gradual and often starts as verbal or emotional but slowly becomes physical. Narcissistic abusers in relationships prey on people who are grieving a loss, in a help profession, or have low self-esteem. Early in the relationship, narcissists will push to move in together quickly and may even ask extremely personal questions on the first few dates. The questions do not come from a place of curiosity but rather are used to gather information to use as a weapon in future arguments.
Many people in abusive relationships are simply told to leave and never look back, but in reality, leaving is complicated. When dealing with narcissistic abusers, they need constant attention, and when they feel they are no longer getting it, will drop their current partner for someone else, likely an ex from a past relationship. However, if their partner tries to leave them first, they’ll start to panic and will do anything to draw them back in. Narcissistic abusers may bring up the promise of future plans or will even use friends and family as a way to convince you to give them another chance. In situations where an abusive marriage involves children, Dr. Sarkis said it’s important to immediately find an attorney so you know not only your rights but your children’s rights. Attorneys and even coparenting apps are helpful ways to mediate between spouses and restrict communication with your abuser. After leaving the marriage, it’s also important for a person to reconnect with their family and those in their life their relationship may have isolated them from to rebuild their support system. Studies have also shown that volunteering can help boost self-esteem, decrease depression and anxiety, and reconnect you with community and new people. If a child whose parent is a narcissistic abuser grows up and starts showing traits of narcissism themselves, it’s important for a parent to have an open and honest conversation with them about their behavior. You cannot force an adult to do something they do not want to but establishing boundaries with your child is crucial in ensuring you honor your emotions while attempting to improve the relationship.
We also asked Dr. Sarkis about the idea that forgiveness is overrated. She stated that as a society, we are often taught that forgiving everything is the only way to move forward. However, she disagrees with this notion. In fact, she believes that there are some things you simply do not ever get closure from. A narcissist may never apologize for their actions, so it’s important to find ways to heal and move on without needing that external validation from another. Journaling can be a great way to heal, though if you’re still in an abusive relationship or environment, it’s important to keep the journal entries on a device and change your passwords often so the abuser cannot gain access to them. Forgiveness can also be the idea that you do not condone the behavior but have given up the notion that the past could have been any different. It’s a process that takes time, but one doesn’t need forgiveness in order to live a happy life. Dr. Sarkis also mentioned what exactly narcissists get from their behavior. She explained that those with narcissistic personality disorder get dopamine from controlling others. Their insatiable need for attention leads them to wanting to control everyone around them.
Just as we’re taught that forgiveness is essential, society also perpetuals the false narrative that self-care is inherently selfish. However, Dr. Sarkis emphasized to us that it is crucial to be compassionate with yourself. You should treat yourself like your own best friend and realize that you deserve to prioritize your needs in any toxic situation. Part of prioritizing yourself can be leaving an abusive or toxic situation, and for women in midlife thinking of leaving a long-term marriage to a narcissist, that can feel impossible. For the first steps to take, Dr. Sarkis said to find a therapist for yourself or even for both you and your partner. Whether or not the marriage will last after seeking help will depend on if the narcissistic partner is willing to change. If they will not attend multiple sessions or seek treatment with their own therapist, then they are unlikely to try to change. If you leave the marriage and start dating again, before finding someone, you should make a list of what you’re looking for and what you deem nonnegotiable in a partner. You should also block your ex on social media right after the relationship ends, for narcissists will often use social media as a way to bring you back into the relationship.
Abusive relationships do not always start with violence. However, verbal and emotional abuse often slowly lead to physical abuse. First signs can be when a partner physically blocks your path when you’re trying to leave or if they start getting too close to you during an argument. A time when you’re more likely to experience violence are when they find out you’re trying to leave, so it’s important to have a plan and help in place. Dr. Sarkis suggested consulting domestic violence shelters and attorneys to find safety measures to protect yourself. You can also pack a to-go bag in your car with extra clothes and medicine. Dr. Sarkis also emphasized that if you have pets, make sure to take them with you when you leave. Narcissistic abusers will hurt or use pets to bring you back home if you leave them there. You can keep them with you, bring them to domestic violence shelters that allow pets, or even leave them with your vet while you find a place to live. Finally, we asked about the least expensive ways to pay for therapy and help in toxic relationships. Dr. Sarkis explained that most therapists will accept insurance, there are family law attorneys that will do pro or low bono work, and that domestic violence shelters usually will not charge.
Stephanie Sarkis
An accredited psychotherapist, Dr. Stephanie Sarkis is a specialist in ADHD, anxiety, and narcissistic abuse. Along with being one of only twenty people with the dual designation of American mental health counselors’ association diplomate and clinical health specialist in child and adolescent counseling, Dr. Sarkis is also a licensed mental health counselor and national certified counselor with her own private practice in Tampa, Florida. She provides both in person and Telehealth sessions as well as facilitating collaborative divorce. Apart from her clinical work, Dr. Sarkis is a best-selling author with numerous books, including Healing from Toxic Relationships: 10 Essential Steps to Recover from Gaslighting, Narcissism, and Emotional Abuse, Gaslighting: Recognize Manipulative and Emotionally Abusive People, and more.
In this episode, we discuss…
- [0:01] Bossa Bars
- [0:47] Guest Introduction
- [4:04] Start of Interview
- [4:43] Gaslighting V.S. Narcissism
- [7:06] Different Narcissistic Relationships
- [11:47] Hoovering People Back into Relationships
- [15:34] Who is Vulnerable to Narcissists?
- [18:28] Tips for Escaping Narcissistic Abuse
- [21:56] Dealing with Narcissistic Adult Children
- [25:10] Forgiveness is Overrated
- [31:26] What Narcissists Get from Their Behavior
- [33:48] Self Care
- [35:25] Leaving a Narcissistic Marriage in Midlife
- [42:03] Physical Abuse and Ways to Afford Therapy and Shelter
- [46:58] Closing Thoughts
- [48:05] Outro
Useful Resources:
Dr. Sarkis’ Website I [http://stephaniesarkis.com]
Talking Brains Podcast I [http://stephaniesarkis.com/blog/category/talking-brains/]
Dr. Sarkis’ LinkedIn I [https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephaniesarkis/]
Dr. Sarkis’ Facebook I [https://www.facebook.com/StephanieSarkisPhD]
Dr. Sarkis’ Instagram I [https://www.instagram.com/sarkisphd/]
Dr. Sarkis’ Twitter I [https://twitter.com/stephaniesarkis]
Dr. Sarkis’ YouTube Channel I [https://www.youtube.com/c/StephanieSarkis/videos]
Dr. Sarkis’ Pinterest I [https://www.pinterest.com/stephaniesarkis/]
Dr. Sarkis’ Reddit I [https://www.reddit.com/user/stephaniesarkisphd]
Dr. Sarkis’ Books
Healing from Toxic Relationships I [https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09L7YZ8CT/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_tkin_p1_i1]
Executive Function Difficulties in Adults I [https://www.amazon.com/Executive-Function-Difficulties-Adults-Productive/dp/1683730984/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&qid=1514405468&sr=8-1&keywords=stephanie+sarkis+executive+function&linkCode=sl1&tag=httpwwwstep0f-20&linkId=a6c1306583bcd60010fa6481fb8a6f90]
Natural Relief for Adult ADHD I [https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1626251649/ref=as_li_tf_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1572245549&linkCode=am2&tag=httpwwwstep0f-20]
10 Simple Solutions for Adult ADD I [https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1608821846/ref=as_li_tf_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1608821846&linkCode=am2&tag=httpwwwstep0f-20]
ADD and Your Money I [https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/157224707X/ref=as_li_tf_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=157224707X&linkCode=as2&tag=httpwwwstep0f-20]
Making the Grade with ADD I [https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1572245549/ref=as_li_tf_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1572245549&linkCode=am2&tag=httpwwwstep0f-20]
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