EPISODE SUMMARY:
As a relationship and boundaries expert, Natalie Lue draws from both the world and her own experiences to help others overcome their struggles and find both the self-love they’re seeking. In today’s episode, we sat down with Natalie to discuss the stigmas behind saying no, the five styles of people pleasing, learning to say no, and steps you can take towards being more assertive.
First, we asked Natalie to discuss why she thinks people, especially women, are often hesitant to stand up for themselves and say no. She told us that because we live in a patriarchal society, women are conditioned from a young age to be givers. Young girls are taught how to be ideal wives and caretakers and to put their own needs aside in favor of others. This has particularly been an issue amongst the current generation of midlife women, who were raised in an age of obedience and grew to be people pleasers. Women are also often afraid to say no due to their safety. In romantic scenarios, women may feel guilted or pressured into uncomfortable situations out of fear of making their partner angry.
Every people pleaser falls into one of five styles: gooding, efforting, avoiding, saving, and suffering. Natalie explained to us that gooding people pleasers are obsessed with how others perceive them. They want to feel and be viewed as a good person, and as a result will constantly say yes to people in order to maintain their positive image. Efforting people pleasers assume that the solution to every issue is to work harder. Rather than asserting their own needs when feeling uncomfortable, they instead focus on putting more effort into others and pleasing them. On the opposite end of the spectrum are avoiding people pleasers, who strive to avoid conflict at all costs in order to please others. They’ll ignore their own feelings and go along with what others want as a way to avoid confrontations. Saving people pleasers need to feel needed; their sole focus is taking care of other people, even to their own detriment, and they’ll often over-give until they’re completely empty. Suffering people pleasers are those who believe that the more you suffer, the better person it makes you, so they’ll ignore their own needs and focus on other people instead.
Unfortunately, when people pleasers ignore their own emotions, those feelings don’t just disappear. They’re simply buried deep within us, getting bigger and bigger, until eventually, they burst out. The emotional explosion can be internal, causing burnout and exhaustion, or external, where we scream our heart out to the person whose needs we’ve been prioritizing over our own. Whether they blow up inside or to someone else, a people pleasure will immediately feel ashamed afterwards and will try to use their guilt as justification for why they don’t share their feelings. However, in reality, by asserting their feelings more often, people pleasers could avoid those explosions altogether. When asked about learning to say no, Natalie said that it’s important to start small. Unless the situation calls for it, starting big can trigger a person. It’s better to try saying no in small scenarios so that you can get used to the feeling and build from there. It’s also important to pay attention to why you’re saying yes. If the only reason you’re saying yes to something is to avoid confrontation or take control of a situation, then your yes stems from people pleasing habits. Rather than saying yes right away, Natalie suggested telling the person “I’ll get back to you” so you can evaluate your feelings and figure out what the best step forward is for you. If they refuse to give you that time, then your answer to their request should be no.
Saying no can be a difficult task, especially to those used to putting others before themselves. For a people pleasure, advocating for themselves in an assertive way can feel nearly impossible, especially when faced with someone they never disagree with. We asked Natalie if she had advice for being more assertive, and she told us that the first step is figuring out what a person is expecting from you versus what you actually want. If the two things do not align, then people pleasing tendencies may start to arise. Rather than cave, you need to decide what it is you want and identify your assertive outcome. Oftentimes, people pleasers make a choice in the hopes of receiving a certain reaction. The fear of causing discomfort or receiving pushback keeps them from saying how they really feel. However, an important lesson for people pleasers to learn is that they cannot control how another person reacts to their boundaries. When you start saying no to someone who isn’t used to hearing it from you, they’ll often feel surprised, threatened, or even pushback in the hopes that you’ll retreat and give in. But their reaction is about their own baggage, not you, and remaining firm in your choices and boundaries helps break your people pleasing behaviors.
Natalie Lue
Natalie Lue is a thought leader on relationships and human behavior. Her no-nonsense yet compassionate and humorous take has garnered her a following in over 140 countries, and she’s been featured in the likes of The New York Times, The Washington Post, NPR and the BBC. A writer, author and artist, her self-published books, including Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl, The No Contact Rule and Love, Care, Trust & Respect, have sold 150K+ copies, and her podcast, The Baggage Reclaim Sessions, has over 3 million downloads and has been turned into a highly popular Shortcast (short versions of podcast episodes) for non-fiction app, Blinkist. Her latest book, The Joy of Saying No: A Simple Plan to Stop People Pleasing, Reclaim Boundaries, and Say Yes to the Life You Want, was published by Harper Horizon, an imprint of HarperCollins, in January 2023.
Drawing on lessons and observations not just from her own personal transformation from low self-esteem and a penchant for emotionally unavailable men, but from wisdom gleaned from observing interpersonal relationships and the many stories people share with her, she’s become a go-to source for self-help that doesn’t feel or look like self-help, and her message applies in all areas of life.
Natalie founded the popular self-help blog, Baggage Reclaim and is also the original founder of Bambino Goodies, the kids’ lifestyle blog. Born in England, raised in Dublin, Ireland, she’s lives in Caterham, Surrey, on the edge of south east London with her two teenage daughters and crazy cockerpoo. She started blogging full time in 2009, and worked in advertising in her previous career. Her current work centres around people pleasing, boundaries (she’s quite obsessed with work boundaries!), mindfulness, and creativity. In recent years, Natalie has rekindled her artistic side and paints, draws and makes. This includes the watercolour and embroidered quotes in her work, as well as abstract embroidery, weaving, and teaching punch needle workshops.
The relationship columnist for In the Moment magazine until the pandemic shuttered it in spring 2020, she speaks at events like The Mindful Living Show, Blogtacular, Janet Murray’s #2022 (and 2020 and 2021) Courageous Content Live conference and Black British Bloggers Keep Growing virtual conference. She’s also given talks to Amazon (US) women’s network, Blinkist, and other companies, and prior to the pandemic, had started teaching workshops on the power of journaling to primary school children.
A 90s raver at heart with a love of reading, all things arts and crafts, journaling, yoga, travel and design, she’s been wheat free for over a decade and started running in 2018 –and completed the London Marathon four months later.
In this episode, we discuss…
- [0:01] Introduction
- [0:50] Guest Introduction
- [5:10] Start of Interview
- [6:11] Saying “No”
- [9:18] The Five Styles of People Pleasing
- [14:14] What Happens When You Give Too Much
- [16:44] Learning to Say No
- [23:20] Steps to Being Assertive and Saying No
- [36:29] Closing Thoughts
- [37:10] Outro
Useful Resources:
Natalie’s Website I [https://natalielue.com/]
Natalie’s LinkedIn I [https://www.linkedin.com/in/natalie-lue-125547174/?originalSubdomain=uk]
Natalie’s Instagram I [https://www.instagram.com/natlue/]
Natalie’s Twitter I [https://twitter.com/baggagereclaim/]
Baggage Reclaim
Baggage Reclaim I [https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/]
Baggage Reclaim’s Facebook I [https://www.facebook.com/baggagereclaim/]
Natalie’s Books
Mr. Unavailable & The Fallback Girl I [https://www.amazon.com/Unavailable-Fallback-Girl-Understanding-Emotionally-ebook/dp/B005WJGPZI?ref_=ast_author_dp]
The No Contact Rule I [https://www.amazon.com/No-Contact-Rule-Natalie-Lue-ebook/dp/B00DB53ZMQ?ref_=ast_author_dp]
The Dreamer & the Fantasy Relationship I [https://www.amazon.com/Dreamer-Fantasy-Relationship-Natalie-Lue-ebook/dp/B007ZHXI14?ref_=ast_author_dp]
Love, Care, Trust & Respect I [https://www.amazon.com/Love-Care-Trust-Respect-relationships-ebook/dp/B01N2THXOM?ref_=ast_author_dp]
100 Days of Baggage Reclaim I [https://www.amazon.com/100-Days-Baggage-Reclaim-Self-Esteem-ebook/dp/B01LW46CJR?ref_=ast_author_dp]
Can’t Get Enough? Find Us Here!
Website I [http://hotflashescooltopics.com/]
Mail I [[email protected]]
Instagram I [https://www.instagram.com/hotflashesandcooltopics/]
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