ANNETTE O’TOOLE: EPISODE LINK

YOUTUBE LINK

TRANSCRIPT:

Colleen: Welcome back to Hot Flashes & Cool Topics Podcast We are beyond thrilled- Okay to have Annette O’Toole on the show today Welcome

Annette: Thank you so much my dear Irish-named ladies ……… Makes me feel close to you already

Colleen: Oh gosh even though we’re Italian we appreciate it

Annette:  – I love the- Italians man Oh gosh It’s- It’s so funny I just- I just watched uh the latest episode of Stanley Tucci in Italy He’s in Milan- Oh my goodness Oh wow with Yes in fact I haven’t finished it I’ve- I’ve got to go back to it when I’m- loved it finished talking to you

Bridgett: It’s so funny I think Sharon Gless said the same thing when we interviewed her Oh yeah She kind goes “Oh Bridgett and- Colleen, my Irish lasses,but I can understand Bridgett and Colleen.” That’s okay

Colleen: Yes And you know we just watched Nona’s too that’s a great show Oh yes I’m saving that I haven’t- I- I- I thought “Well I’ll watch 4 Seasons first and then I’ll go to Nonna’s.” I just finished 4 Seasons so that’s next on my list Yeah Oh good

Colleen: Well speaking of shows you have been quite busy with Virgin River As a matter of fact as we talk to you, you are taping season 7 Could you have- did you have any clue it was going to be this much of a success

Annette:  No no Gosh no It- you know if- if something goes 2 years as a series that’s- especially on Netflix We’re the l- currently the longest running dramatic series on Netflix because they sort of have a pattern of you know people like the shows and then they- they cancel them for some reason and fans get very upset with it but they’ve let us continue on I think because we’re very cheap to produce ……… We’re- we’re up here in Vancouver it’s very beautiful We don’t have any special effects Um you know it’s not a big sci-fi green screen show So uh it’s just uh all these actors you know in various combinations talking to one another falling in and out of love and- and against a gorgeous backdrop of- of nature So what’s not to like And um we have lovely producers who- who um work really hard in put- putting it all together and um a great cast So you know I’m- but no gosh I remember in season 2 I think it was Alexandra and I were sitting at the um the exterior of Jack’s bar location and she- it was kind of- I don’t know if the first season had aired yet and she said “Do you think anybody’s gonna watch this?” And I said “You know Alexandra I kind of think you- you have to be prepared for this to be successful.” It’s like I felt And this was before COVID I thought it was just the right thing at the right time I thought that um Netflix was very smart to go into the romantic um series business and it’s based on all these books so there was a lot of material for them to- to draw from Um and then COVID hit and when we started airing uh I think people as you’ve said uh need a place to go a beautiful place where we can be happy and there is no COVID and people are nice to one another and it’s a small town community atmosphere Um and yeah so we’re still bringing that going into season 7

Bridgett: Yeah Yeah I mean it- it is so nice because And it’s also very relatable Like Colleen had said earlier when you watch these shooting- shoot ’em up scary sci-fi things the world was scary enough with COVID- Yeah out there And- Yeah absolutely this was just kind of you know just kind of like okay I can relate to these people Yeah And So it was really nice it scarier by the day I mean there’s- Yes something every single day to be scared about so yeah

Annette: Yeah I- I- I agree with you I- I will confess I- I don’t watch the show because mainly ’cause it’s hard for me to watch myself So I- but I know what’s happening I read the scripts and I- I- we do a table read every uh we do uh block episodes We do 2 episodes at once so it’s kind of like shooting a little movie in 15 days Um and we have wonderful directors and so I get enough from- from that that I don’t have to put myself through the agony- of watching myself

Bridgett: You know – I hear- really I hear people say that all the time though Yeah That they don’t like to watch themselves

Colleen: Yeah you know But you’ve never really liked to watch your shows have you

Annette:  No No I- at- at the beginning I um I would because I needed to know technical stuff early on I- I really needed to know what the camera was seeing and how to You know and I’ve my gosh I’ve- it’s been so long now I’ve- I’ve- I’ve learned that as much as I need to And- and- and then it’s a funny thing I’ve just started thinking why is it that I am so repelled by it And 1 one part is getting older you know looking at myself and saying “Oh God oh my goshI wish they’d lit me better there.” But um I think sometimes it’s because I- I concentrate too much on myself and I’m only watching me and it- it takes me out of the show and I- and that’s not good I mean it’s- an actor is supposed to be you know part of the- the fabric of the show I think if it’s- if it’s- especially if it’s uh an ensemble piece like this is or in a play You know you’re just part of the- of the fabric And so I c- I’m kind of looking at it now as a- as more of a theatrical thing rather Maybe it’s ’cause I’m Wha- when you- when you did your interview with uh Rebecca Wysocki she talked about you asked her about directing and she said “I don’t really want to direct but I- I want to- I’m coaching.” And I thought that’s really what I’m interested in I’m only interested in what the actors are doing I- when I see a movie I you know I’m- I’m very excited to see the new- new Mission Impossible and see you know Tom flying around and holding onto helicopters and things But what really interests me is what is happening between the actors and- and the direction and how things look as a whole And- and so uh uh that Gosh I went way off what I originally thought that’s cool No I think that’s cool though But um yeah But um yeah So- so watching myself is- is by far not my favorite thing

Bridgett: Well I could remember one of the first things I remember watching uh you in was the play Vanities Oh my goodness I loved it I think that was likeI think HBO showed it like that

– Yes and they showed Standing Room Only and- Uh-huh that was like one of my favorite plays that I that I saw with you in it

Annette: Oh thank you you Not a whole lot of people uh uh saw that I I think Uh I think we were the first play recorded for HBO if I’m not mistaken I don’t know if it was the first one shown but I think we were kind of a guinea pig as to how they were gonna do it where they were putting cameras and And I I remember asking the director “Now do we do this as if we’re just doing the play so it’s full out for an audience Or are we mindful of the fact that it’s gonna be s- I mean how do we do this?” And there was a question about it Nobody really knew. It was it was a new way of doing all this So I know I remember that they would I think they shot like 2 or 3 of the performances so they could cut it together and then they would come in uh after the play and we would do close-ups of certain things they wanted to catch I I remember that I think that is accurate as as to how we did it. But I love that play and uh if if no one’s seen it I don’t know if it’s available anywhere- Yeah but it’s a wonderful play that takes place The 3 acts are about the 3 times in these women’s lives There’s 3 very close friends in high school and then college and then later living in New York or some of them are living in New York and this is what happens to And uh Shelley Hack and Meredith Baxter were the other 2 uh girls and uh and me You can- And I was I was the one who was ordering people around so I’m still doing that in Virgin River ………

Colleen: Yes you can be quite bossy on Virgin River

Annette: I know It’s like it’s fun to play that ’cause I’m not that way in life Yeah I wish I were more

Colleen: You started very young as you were a dancer and your mom-

  was a dance instructor And what was it like being in that world from such a young age Did you just catch that theater bug and say “I wanna be”

Annette: You know You know y- y- yes I just grew up in it even though I was growing up in Houston Texas Houston was a very big city then and um we were very involved ‘Cause my mom and and my aunt were were dancing teachers we were always invited to be on television by the local kiddy show um program called uh c- um Don Mahoney and uh The Kiddie Troopers And so we would sit on hay bales in this place There was a country singer with his guitar and uh Jenna Claire his sidekick And so every week Either I would be on or my my mom would get a call from Don Mahoney saying “Can Do you have a line up of kids who can come and dance?” And uh she always did So it was just part of our world and we had a big recital every year and we did the the Shriners Ball every year at the coliseum. So I was just always involved in it and then my very first uh acting class was at The Alley Theater which is now a very well-regarded renowned um regional theater in Houston And it was called The Alley Theater ’cause it was in an alley you’d go in through the alley. And I that’s when I started.  I went into the alley and I did a scene  with the other kids from A Midsummer Night’s Dream where I played uh Thisbe in the Pyramus and Thisbe portion of A Midsummer Night’s Dream. So I was a girl playing a boy playing a girl And I just I remember working on my voice and and I was really young and I just There was just something about it that always appealed to me. I’m an only child and I really liked performing and kind of being you know the center of everything. Um but I was also very shy .- You know all the things that that people talk about that go into kind of making an actor. It I I had all those traits So um it’s just been a really um special and humbling experience. Humbling meaning I am I  feel humble that I have been given such a wonderful um support system in my family and um s- some basic talent that I applied and I had really wonderful teachers so everything came together for me to um be able to continue to do it into my 70s now.

Colleen: – So you’re You went to California when you were 13 Or

Annette: – Yeah Is correct Okay Mm-hmm to do it It’s funny It’s an interesting situation. My aunt, my mother’s older sister was more of the of the power behind that. Um my mother at that time was I think 39 maybe. Yeah And she had always been. She got married really young . She went into business with her sister. You know she’d never really been on her own She didn’t go off to college. Um so this was her kind of her opportunity to be on her own. My dad was working for this company called Brown & Root which um is a big oil company and he was working on oil rigs all around the world. So he was off you know on oil rigs. And so I’m the only child so my mother’s uh sister’s daughter ,my cousin wanted to go to art school in California. So it kinda worked out and they thought I was just you know, the most talented thing that ever happened. So um we go out to California just for the summer and they knew through the whole dancing school world they knew a choreographer. They knew a dance instructor and um a very famous tap teacher named Al Gilbert.  And through him they we met Tony Charmoli who was the choreographer for the Danny Kaye Show. And so I auditioned for Tony Charmoli and they were looking for a young girl to play uh the young Gwen Verdon who was the guest star on the Danny Kaye Show. And so I got the part and um so right off the bat I started. Well, I mean that was within the first month I was there. So they all thought well this was a sign from God of course that I was going to just have this great career. My focus was musical comedy I really had a chip on my shoulder about acting. I thought “Oh no, I’ll never do that. I’ll be on Broadway and I’ll you know-” “I’ll be a big dancer.” And uh as time went on I did study and I was a dancer on some shows and I was doing really well as a dancer but I wasn’t sorry. Hold on Okay And have to decline I’m getting a call Oh But it was it was uh spam Don’t worry Oh But anyway I um I I was turning 18 and I had gotten the lead one of the lead dancing roles in Promises Promises which was coming out to from New York to LA And um Michael Bennett was the  choreographer and director of that Choreographer I don’t know if he directed it. Anyway uh who went on later, not very much later than that to do A Chorus Line. So he chose me and he kept asking me if I was 18 And I didn’t wanna lie so I just said “Mm-mm,” ’cause I was gonna be 18 by the time rehearsals started so I wasn’t really lying .But at the same time I was being sent out for these acting jobs ’cause I realized I needed some acting. I didn’t realize it My agent said “You’re gonna need some acting lessons.” So I went to this acting class. And so I um I happened to fall in love with the with acting. I just felt like it was a really wonderful thing. My thing, not my mom or my aunt’s thing. It was my thing So like a  true convert I became very  adamant about my newfound love. So I uh I got a role on Gunsmoke. I went in for this part and I had to decide whether I was gonna do Promises Promises or Gunsmoke. And my mother really said “You you have to make this decision yourself. It’s your decision to make.” ‘Cause  it was the week I turned 18. So I chose Gunsmoke because I felt like I didn’t know at the time I was making a decision for the rest of my life but it turned out I was I thought “I’m a good dancer, I’m not a great dancer. Uh it’s a short career My knees will eventually give out. I don’t wanna teach dancing. Um if I do acting I can do it ’til the day I die if I work really hard at it.” And I remember thinking all those thoughts and they were accurate. So I um I’m glad I did. That year when I turned 18, because you can work as an adult and you no longer have to have a chaperone with you or a social worker on set. I worked a ton. And I was studying acting and I was working and it was wonderful to have those 2 things because everything I was learning in class I could apply or think “Well that doesn’t really help me, I have to figure this out for myself.” S- ’cause that’s what acting is you know It nobody can really teach you. They can give you the basics But you have to kind of come up with a way.  Especially film acting. It’s so strange. You sit there in a in a trailer for hours waiting for them to light or do whatever they do and then you have to go and like immediately be very upset or you know into a scene that is being shot out of order. So you figure it out and then that’s what I did. So I was very lucky to get practice at it.

Colleen:  I was listening to an interview that you did where you said that you were just too naive to realize that there was anything like the couch or- Uh-huh or that that producers or directors would hit on you Did you see that with other women that were actresses?

Annette: – I didn’t because I really you know, I would see other women at interview- at uh auditions. There would be a lot of us there and we’d talk and there were certain people I really loved um-Um Morgan I she changed her name, Morgan Brittany. She was at the time Suzanne Kapito. She played um the Baby June in uh the movie of Gypsy and then she went on to Uh she changed it And I remember sitting in  an  interview and she said “I’m thinking of changing my name.” I said “Really You have such a beautiful name.” And she said “Yes I wanna I be Morgan Brittany.” And I thought “Oh no.” It sounds like a You know like a title from a gothic novel Um but I didn’t tell her that. And um she went on to do very well.  But I But that was like the extent of our conversations.  You know I had some friends in acting class who were who were actresses but I So I don’t really I didn’t really know what was going on with other people. I just knew that I kinda had blinders on and it was all about the work for me. Studying and doing the work and you know I had a boyfriend or a series of  boyfriends. But but that was not my focus .My focus was really my career. So I  just didn’t, I wasn’t aware of it I know it And when I think really hard, I think about people saying stuff to me and I think “Well that was out of line.” Right “They shouldn’t have done that Um – why didn’t I speak up?” And it’s like it just didn’t occur to me. I did- wasn’t hearing it in that way and I just I think that’s um just maybe my upbringing and uh maybe I just got lucky with the parts I got. You know I I’ve mostly had wonderful experiences with people. I  can only think of a couple that were like “Ugh I wish I wish” That that was kinda creepy Or not creepy but like ugh off-putting . I Wish that hadn’t happened.

Colleen:  Yeah, Because you were saying that you know in the interview that it’s very common for directors to wanna meet at hotels because they’re flying in- Right to meet you So you don’t think twice- Annette: Yep when they say “Can you come to my hotel room to audition?” Well yeah I thought twice Uh I remember one time I don’t know if I spoke about it in the in that other interview. Yeah in this interview Um yeah I was meeting a director who has been set up through a very big producer for me to meet. A director who had flown in uh for a big movie. And I thought we were meeting because I had met them a lot of times in you know in the restaurant or the coffee shop or some  outside and on a patio or something and it was all on the up and up. So that’s what I expected this to be and they said “Are you you’re He he wants you to come to his room.” So I didn’t, ‘Cause I’d never had this experience before. I didn’t think anything about it. I go up and he really was very aggressive. I think he’d had some drinks and it was the end of a day or end of a flight or something and he was kind of all over me And I- Oh The f- But the funny thing was for me, the first thing that came into my mind was “Oh he doesn’t really want me for this part.” And so that uh that propelled me out of the room because I thought “How dare you ,I’m here as an actress, I’m not here to be your, you know escort for the evening. Uh and if that’s what you thought this was, it’s not.” And knew I would never work with that man and I never did. Um and he’s a very well-known now but not with us anymore. I don’t remember the movie I don’t even know if the movie got made but um doesn’t matter anymore. But that was the biggest one I can think of that happened to me. And he made no beans about my leaving I just said “I’m out of here.” Wow So it wasn’t like he- grabbed me for you though at a young age that you could set that boundary ’cause women-

 Yeah Well yeah I just I would have people call me up producers and say you know “You wanna go to Las Vegas for the weekend?” I’d say “Can I bring my boyfriend?” And they said “What?” I said you d- d uh You know ’cause I just didn’t get it. Right Mm-hmm really didn’t get it Right It took me a long time .

Bridgett:  You know, I do I feel like so many actors too ,It’s so hard in that career and it’s so hard to You know you’ve got so much competition, you’ve got so much talent out there- Yeah that I I can see where they feel “If I don’t do this then I don’t have a career.” And that’s been You know you hear stories where that’s been threatened to people Yeah You know It’s horrible.- It’s a horrible situation I mean- Yeah I know it doesn’t just happen in the entertainment world No Um I think it happens in every career It actually happens probably but- Probably hope- hopefully it sounds like a lot of women are coming out with saying- Right these things are happening- Yeah and we need to be on the lookout and we’ll name you And and- Yeah good for We will call you out.  

Colleen: Do you find that you know ’cause you do work with some younger people now on the show that the social media aspect has changed the way actors enter into a role?  Because I know we’ve talked to a lot of actors who say part of the agreement is that they’re gonna post on Instagram, they’re gonna post on TikTok. How do you see that change happening

Annette: Yeah ,I see it a lot. You know I do Instagram I used to do Twitter and then I I opted out of that. And um but I do Instagram I just I don’t take enough pictures you know. I just don’t. I’m not good but they are always- Right taking pictures. And like on Virgin River they ask us not to post anything while we’re shooting. Once they um once the show drops which is probably in the fall again I I would imagine uh they say “Yeah you can send them to us so we can kind of approve them.” But they don’t wanna give away anything or s- show even any wardrobe for people to say “Oh they’re gonna be doing this.” But they take tons of pictures all the time and then later on they post them. I’m like “Oh God I should have done that.” And I think “Why?” Nobody You know it’s a young person’s- Yeah world all that And um yeah it’s funny I I understand. That’s just how it is And I I if I were a young person I don’t think I could I probably would do it ’cause it would be what I know and what is expected of me. There’s something .It just takes you out of the work you’re doing I think. But you’re all sitting there around you know waiting for the scene.I knit or I read or something and they’re taking pictures whatever I don’t care. The young people I get to work with are lovely. Sarah Dugdale mostly who plays Lizzie and Kai Bradbury who plays Denny. We have a lot to do together especially uh coming up. And cause they’re living with my character. So um I  And they’re a little bit older than their characters. They’re not quite maybe 10 years older than the characters they play. So they’re you know they’re not kids They’ve been around And they’re very dedicated. They’re incredibly professional and kind people. I love both of them. So maybe they’re not good ex- examples ’cause they’re so hardworking. I’m not around anybody who’s not. Mm-hmm But I know there are those people. They just haven’t had the, they haven’t been able to have the practice that I had early on. There’s not that much for them. Well maybe there is. Maybe there is all that work I don’t know anymore. I mean I’m just doing what I know.

 Bridgett: Well I think it uh you know I think it seems to be working Like you know we’ve had different people on and it is really great to see the different roles they have out there for women that I feel like they didn’t have as many for women in our demographic

 I mean do you find that to be the case as well?

Annette:  I do. It’s wonderful- Mm-hmm to see people like Kathy Bates, you know having this series and And like uh The 4 Seasons, which I just watched, is mostly about people older couples trying to figure things out and I love it. I just like it when a show like that uh shows the side of Just ’cause you’re older doesn’t mean you have anything worked out really. You just lived a little bit longer and you just have the same problems and concerns and fears and – loves and everything. So you know we’re all people and just trying to make it work. I just think the more we can be open and kind to one another ,the better.

Bridgett:  Right Exactly I was gonna ask too about like when I was researching I didn’t realize that you and your husband wrote the song for A Mighty Wind that was Oscar nominated

.Annette:  Yeah Oh my God

Bridgett:  You know I I love a- I love all those movies- Yes from first one I love all those Christopher Guest movies and just all of them. And that  one too just bringing in the folk part of it and- Mm-hmm the rose Can you share how that came about?

Annette: Sure I’ve told this story a few times ,um but it’s a good story. Um I was doing Smallville the series Smallville up in Vancouver where I am I can’t escape Vancouver Um ha it’s a lovely place to not have to escape. I mean to not want to escape .Um and so uh 9/11 happened. It was our second episode and I was stuck up here with uh n- no planes to get home and I was really, really uh wanting to be with my family .

 

You know it was a really scary time I didn’t know what was gonna happen next, so I really wanted to be home. So I got in a car and drove home  from Vancouver to Los Angeles. And um I got there and they called and said “We  need you back immediately.” So, no plane, so uh my husband got in the car with me the rental car and we drove back. So on the way back to Vancouver, I had this melody going through my head and I said um “This, this melody i- am I making this up or is this like an old song that I’m just repeating?” And I I sang it to him ……… And he said “I think you’re making that up.” He said “L- l- l-” And we just started making up lyrics to it. And we wrote the whole thing pretty much in the car. When we got to Vancouver, we sat down and or he sat down and kind of put the finishing touches on it and that turned out to be a song that the new Main Street Singers sing It’s called. Potatoes in the Paddy Wagon that um they sing in the in the show. And when we got to um Vancouver Michael said you know ‘Cause they were writing the music for the for the movie He said “I think maybe Chris will like this for the movie. It could work.” ‘Cause we were trying to do all kinds of folk songs. So we sang it for Chris he liked it and put it in the movie. And then he asked Michael if he’d like  to write the signature song uh and he said “The only thing it has to have is a kiss It has to be centered around a kiss.” So Michael said “I gotta write this song Do you wanna write it with me?” And I said “Sure.” And he said uh “I just All I have is a title A Kiss at the End of the Rainbow.” And so I said “Great.” So we sat down and we wrote it like in an hour and uh um then we went out to walk our former dog Jimmy, and finished writing it on the walk and sang it for Chris and  his wife Jamie Lee Curtis was there at the time with him, listening to the song. And Chris thought it was too good a song. He said “This is like a real song I don’t th- uh it’s not funny enough.” And she said “Oh no that It needs to be It needs to be a real song.” So I think with her encouragement he got on board and we went home and wrote another song just in case called  Closer Than Tomorrow which is also a very good song wasn’t in the movie. But um yeah and then we wrote another song. Well, Michael wrote a lot of music for the for the show but um I contributed um There’s a um what’s it called A uh It’s a like a fisherman’s song, seafaring song Far Away about whaling.  So we had we had a lot of Patrick O’Brian books and we got them down and took out all the um nautical references and just put everything in the song that we could.

Colleen: So you know we mentioned your husband Michael McKean and we pretend like “Oh just Michael.” No he is a very well-known actor and- Yes musician as well And I love the story of the fact that you 2 were friends but nothing really happened for you You’d kinda given up on- Oh yeah romance and marriage Can you share the story of how you guys kinda came to be

Annette: Yeah, Well I I had known Michael to say hi to for many many years. He was on Laverne & Shirley and I was you know doing my stuff and I was um I was seeing an actor named Bruno Kirby who was actually in Spinal Tap he plays the limo driver. And um so we were kind of in the same circle of friends. Chris Guest and all those people. And uh but Michael was married and had a kid,- children and I um You know  nothing there. We were just talking. He was a nice man. So um fast forward to 1997 and I’m living in Ashland, Oregon and um divorced and have 2 children and Michael is divorced and we do a TV movie together for Lifetime called Final Justice. I did 2 movies with final in the title. so I was trying to remember which ones were- Which one Final Justice and Final Descent, Um it’s Final Justice and we were shooting in Portland, Oregon and uh and we just became friendly on on set. He was the only other actor besides Richard Thomas who would bring a book to set and we would sit there with our books and read and talk about books and t- talk about our kids and stuff, and um and so when I went back to uh to Ashland, Oregon and he went back to LA .He would email me or call me up and say “Hey Elvis Costello’s gonna be on blah blah blah,” and you know ’cause we both love Elvis Costello and it was just a really nice friendship. And then one night I remember my daughter Anna was really really sick. She was about 9 or 10 ,I had her in bed with me ’cause I wanted to watch her through the night ’cause she had been so sick and she was- had a fever. The phone rang it was Michael. It was like 11:00-something and he said “Annette?” And I said “Yes?” And he said, it was just like I could hear this other thing in his voice and I thought “Oh my God.” And I said “Michael I really wanna talk to you but Anna is really sick and I can’t talk right now. Can you call me tomorrow?” And he said “Oh yes yes I’ll call you tomorrow,” and I thought I don’t, first of all I don’t know if he’ll call me but how exciting and I just I did that thing you do I went to the bathroom and jumped up and down and did a silent scream,because I thought “Oh my God.” I really wasn’t, I had been divorced maybe 4 years or something.  I was on my way back to LA to live because I was l the breadwinner for this whole family and I was getting older and I needed to be in the place where the the work was happening. He  did call me the next day. And then I we could, we just had this wonderful uh phone love affair and then I was coming back to LA to look for schools for the kids .And um we went out on a date our first date. And it was funny because I already knew him so well from having worked with him really closely and from all these talks we had about everything. And then when I saw him I I remember I jumped in the car and just threw my arms around him and we had this big kiss and it was like just so romantic. It was wonderful. And then that night, we went to see um Bob Dylan, Van Morrison and Joni Mitchell in concert at UCLA. So it was quite a first date.

Bridgett:  Wow It was really, really exciting.

Annette:  And I knew immediately, actually I knew the night he called me that we were going to spend the rest of our lives together.  I just knew it . When you work with somebody especially in a movie you know,  ’cause we weren’t playing lovers in the movie .  We were adversaries in the movie. He was this sleazy lawyer and I was this woman, he had um gotten, my brother had been killed and there was this trial and he was the lawyer who’d gotten the killer off. So I had this vendetta. And so I kidnap him and torture him in a cabin on this stuff, real lifetime fare. And um so it wasn’t like we fell in love over that. It was just we became really close friends because there’s just something about trusting one another as actors and knowing the other person’s there for you and considering their opinion so much. It’s just  a good basis for a marriage. It’s what I think why a lot of actors fall in love on sets because.

Bridgett:  Sure there is that that bond. Right And you’re spending all this time together Yeah And you’re there you’re there for so long But- Yeah it d- but just you know the whole the story of the song just is so wonderful I think And those- Uh-huh those movies they’re so unique- Yeah all of the Christopher Guest type movies.  I’m from Kentucky and I was at Derby one year and Fred Willard’s wife was in front of me in the bathroom line, And I didn’t know it was her

Annette:  Mary, Mary Willard

Bridgett: Yes ,Yeah And uh Jamie Presley was at the Derby too and she was right in front of me and-  people were coming up talking to them And I just said something like “Oh I saw Fred Willard over there I don’t wanna bother him though.” And I said “But I really love Best In Show It’s one of my favorite movies.” And she’s like “Oh here’s his wife here’s his wife.” His wife said “They need to make one of the movies about theKentucky Derby.” And I said “Oh yes they do.” It is quite, it’s quite different you know. Yeah But they they are really great And-

Annette:  Yeah they are- I- wonderful films

Bridgett:  I  really loved you as Rose Kennedy

Annette:  Oh thank you

Bridgett: And you were you nominated for that as well

Annette:  I was Yes, I was nominated for an Emmy and for a Golden Globe I think I was Oh really Yeah Shows you how much  attention I pay to awards.  Though Yeah, But find all that just like it’s which is convenient since I’ve not been nominated very often ………

Colleen: But you were very good But c- yeah As I’ll- And you consistently worked Yeah Which is Yes That’s better I think The longevity of that says a lot about your talent

Annette: Oh thank you Right Yeah

Colleen: When y- When you were talking about you know you’re in your 40s you’re in Oregon and you have to move back was that a time where you were noticing that the roles for women in their 40 Were you playing already the mother or the grand Like how What were the roles like then?

Annette:  Um I actually was doing really well then I’ve always looked a bit younger than I am, so I think I was lucky in that way. Um I had some really juicy roles in my 40s. Um so  maybe that started to change then. I don’t know.  All  I was looking for was just the the next job you know because I really was trying to  support everybody.  And um I just wanted to keep working The first few years when I lived in Oregon I tried really hard to go back and forth for meetings and stuff. And there were no direct flights from Medford, Oregon to Los Angeles at the time. So I’d have to  always stop in San Francisco. It would always  a delay for fog or something. So it it was it was hard. And um so I finally just thought I just can’t. With 2 little kids, I just didn’t want to do it anymore. And I said “I’m just gonna take what’s offered to me.” So I was lucky to keep getting offered interesting stuff. I was just really lucky. Maybe it’s ’cause I’d had a good foundation of people knowing who I was and that I was you know reliable and conscientious and all those things. So like like the Kennedys of Massachusetts I got there, I got Copacabana that I did with Barry Manilow and um tons of tons of stuff. Oh Cross My Heart, the movie I did with Marty Short.

Colleen:  That’s one of your favorites isn’t it?

Annette:  Yeah,  It was my favorite movie experiences because we shot it like a play.

Bridgett: Ooh So that’s why you loved to ’cause well I’m sure he was amazing too.

Annette: Well mainly I loved it ’cause of Marty. He was so wonderful and funny and darling. It was  just a wonderful time. Uh he’s exactly what you think. Yeah I mean he’s just a sweet man. And um we uh we had a really good time. Yeah ’cause it was mostly just the 2 of us, so we would kind of sit there were sequences we did out of order but most of the stuff that we did in the this apartment. It covers this  these people’s third date and they really, really like one another but they have each have a big secret. He’s lost his job and she’s got a child she hasn’t told him about. So they have to kind of come to if they’re gonna stick this, is gonna work out they they’re gonna have to be truthful with one another and they don’t wanna be. So the movie’s about that. And we spent a lot of time in this one apartment which is not his apartment, that’s the other lie. I think- this is his apartment but  it’s his best friend’s apartment. Um so it was just really fun. I just remember going home at night and my face was hurting so badly because I was laughing all day long just from in between scenes you know, just laughing at him and whoever he was talking to because obviously it was so funny.

Colleen:  With the role from Smallville you had mentioned that you actually left ’cause you were doing the same thing you didn’t really have like a lot of meat to the role.

  Yeah Was it hard to leave it?

Annette: No because I was commuting and my kids were in high school and middle school back in LA and um I committed to 6 years which I did.  And the money was very good. You know it was, And my friend John Glover calls it the golden handcuffs. You know you’re just on the plane a lot- Mm-hmm and there were times I’d go back and forth like 3 times in a week um to uh to Los Angeles for school events or somebody needed something. You know I just wanted to be home. Um but uh yeah you know they asked me to stay on or to come. And I did go back for a few guest star c- type of episodes But I’d done it you know and it the show was not about her character and it’s like if I’m gonna work I really, I don’t wanna just be here and there I wanna be a part of a show and um feel like I’m contributing .And uh I you know it could’ve gone on a long time but  I’m glad I left.   After that I really decided I would go to New York and try to have a career there which I did ’cause then the kids were a bit older, so I did do that and I’m I still have ties to New York and desperate to do a play there again .

Bridgett: Hope that happens soon.  So is theater kind of your favorite? Is that one of your favorite things is theater?

Annette: I love all acting. And they all take different muscles, you know it’s like doing different types of You know, you’re swimming or fencing. You know they’re sports but they’re very different. So um I just love the connection with the audience. My husband’s on Broadway right now doing Glengarry Glen Ross and so he uh he’s loving it. He’s at a point now where it’s like the separation is really hard for us. It’s been the hardest thing and we’ve had to do it a lot and you’d think we’d be used to it. We are after a while it’s like “This is stupid I feel stupid.” Like “Why am I  not with you?” And you know some of it is that we’re older and we don’t have as much time left as we’ve had, you know before. So um we just miss each other a lot and we’re still I mean we’re closer friends of course.

Colleen:  You know it’s interesting that you said that as you get older you don’t want to be apart as much Do you find that since his kids have grown and your kids have grown that your friendship is becoming stronger as you get older?

Annette:  Absolutely

Colleen: Because I think Bridgett  and I have both been married for 30 plus years and it’s really hard to be away from our spouses.

Annette:  Yeah, yes It really really is. It almost becomes like an illness. I start to feel Well right now I have terrible allergies so I actually feel kind of sick. Whatever’s blooming here in Vancouver does not like me. And boy my eyes. And yesterday we were around a lot of animals outside and it was like that didn’t help either. But yeah it’s like um heartsick you know not to be together The person who means the most Not the most, but up there in the top with of the kids, you know the most ,it’s uh ,it’s just hard not to be together. And we just like each other. We like the same stuff. I can’t watch Jeopardy when he’s not here I just can’t watch it. It’s it’s-

Bridgett:  That’s so true, I do the same thing .

Annette: And he can’t watch The Amazing Race ………

Bridgett: We we call that serial cheating  Or series or serial cheating

Colleen’s husband has to travel a lot and-

Colleen:  I hate it Oh Mm-hmm

Bridgett: My husband retired. He doesn’t have to travel as much, but he still has to travel some and- Yeah Yeah it’s hard

Colleen: But speaking of Jeopardy, wasn’t your husband like a celebrity Jeopardy champion.

Annette:  He is the celebrity champion. He won a million dollars for charity.

Bridgett:  Wow Wow that’s great That’s amazing my gosh

Annette: Yeah And I was in the audience and you can hear me screaming when the tape plays. You can hear me screaming. And that was Alex Trebek , when he was still with us and uh he would say “Oh Annette’s screaming.” Um he would always point to me in the audience. It was really sweet. Yeah Michael was on the show a few times and then he won that that uh big tournament. Um and I was an alternate ’cause I said- Mm-hmm “I’m gonna be there anyway.” It wasn’t on the big show but it was on something they did from Radio City Music Hall And I said “I’m gonna be there in the audience Can I be an alternate?” ‘Cause I wanted to give money to a charity and I knew I probably wouldn’t get on but I really wanted to get on. But yeah so I  was given some money just for standing by. I was given some money

– Oh wow for my charity Oh that’s is great

Bridgett: That’s great! What charity were you choosing?

Annette:  Well I don’t think it exists anymore. It was called Stitches from the Heart. It was a uh a knitting charity ’cause I’m a big knitter. We would make blankets and little sweaters and baby booties and bonnets to give to um to hospitals  know shelters for babies who uh didn’t  have the stuff they needed. Bridgett: Right Oh that is that is really nice .

 Is there a role that you really wanted that you did not get to play in your career ?

Annette: Yes I tested for Body Heat that Kathleen Turner did with Bill Hurt. I think 5 of us tested I think it was me, Kathleen, Anne Archer maybe Carrie Fisher and somebody else It it wasn’t Elizabeth Perkins I think she was a little too young at the time. Um and I really really wanted to do that part. And I also Uh I kind of have a  reputation as being the person who came in second for pretty much everything. Terms of Endearment I really wanted to do and it. It was kind of me for a long time until Deborah Winger walked in the door and then it w- that changed. Oh And it’s The funny thing is you know I would’ve been good in those roles It wouldn’t have been the same movie that we know and love. It would’ve been a different movie It Maybe it would’ve been as good maybe not ,who knows. But you know we’ll never know. But um I worked with Richard Crenna one time and uh I think I At the time I’d been up for something that I didn’t get and I said “I was like, it just It broke my heart.” You know And I said “But I guess things happen for a reason.” He said he said “Not everything happens for a reason but other things happen.” Mm-hmm Yeah And it seemed like a very simple thing but I thought “It’s really kinda profound,” and he’s really right. And that’s what life is. It’s all these series of like meeting Michael at the right time. We were both you know at a point in our lives where we desperately needed one another and we happened to be free at the same time and everything worked out. You know it’s just, Life is such an adventure And I I just finished watching actually just today right before we talked the the um documentary about the Judd family. They  live around where we live now. Yeah uh-huh And it’s so I mean it makes me cry.  It’s  so moving and so sad but also very life-affirming. Those women are very strong young women who or  she left us with and um you yu know Ah I don’t know I’m saying a lot of things mish-moshed but-

Bridgett & Colleen:  No No no um just think life you just never know where it’s gonna take you.

Annette:  Right. And you never know about you know, you look at somebody like Naomi Judd and you think wow she’s got the you know- the world on a string. It’s like nope she had uh so many horrible things happen to her in her life that she just couldn’t deal

Bridgett:  Right And I’ve only seen the first one I need to watch the second one. Ashely,  she went to college where I went.  She went to University of Kentucky Uh-huh I had a few classes I really didn’t know her but I did have- Uh-huh classes with her and she was a very smart girl. Oh yeah Like she really We had like things that weren’t even her major and she knew all about it. So smart

Annette: And you know- could tell She was always very articulate

Bridgett: Oh she was a smart girl

Colleen: And Winona lives like a mile away from us we Tennessee now so we live we live like down the street or- You can’t escape the Judds ……… And you could definitely hear  her at the grocery store. You’re like “There’s Winona.” “She’s here.”

 Yeah I said it in our interview, I think with Elizabeth Perkins, that I saw her once in my in Kroger, She had on all black and I thought that she worked at Kroger at the grocery store. I thought,” I know that lady How do I know that lady, I couldn’t pinpoint her, She works here, she works here ,Yeah That’s how I know her. But yeah But it is interesting how you say you know you look at somebody like the Judds or you look at some of these people and you don’t know. You know just for on the surface you think they have this fabulous life and I found that out from a lot of people that we interview.  I think of Moon Zappa and Ione Skye. They really stand out .They’ve written these books and they’re about my age and you know when I was in high school age too, it’s you know you’re in high school and they’re the you know the people- Yeah you see in the magazines and you think- Right life must be really great for them, then you read this book about what it was like for them and you’re like oh my goodness I- Yeah I just feel terrible for them and I’m really happy to see them on the other side you know Yeah And being strong like they are today and- Yeah somebody that really shares those stories with you, it really, I don’t know I really have a so much admiration for someone that really shares their story and what’s going on with them .

Annette: Me too Yup Just- there’s a lot of them out there boy Yeah

Colleen: Was there ever a time ’cause it doesn’t sound like it ,but was there ever a time where you were like “I think I’m gonna slow down the career and maybe not take as many roles?” Or do you just still have a passion for what you do?

Annette:  I do have a passion for it. I’m gonna try to be more selective. Not that I’m offered a ton of stuff But I’m just very mindful now of  wanting to be home more. We just moved to a new house. Michael’s never slept there. We moved and he had to go to New York for rehearsal and I did the move with  my daughter. Anna helped me with the move. And he’s not you know, had the opportunity to live in the new house. So we really wanna take the summer and just do that .He’s got a lot coming up with uh They did a sequel to Spinal Tap, uh called The End Spinal Tap: The End Continues Um and so-

Colleen: Oh ……… Bridgett’s very excited sorry

Annette: The uh they’re gonna premiere it in September so they’ve got a lot of things planned that may or may not happen you know depending. I’d love to be there for all of those things ’cause it’s very exciting. But just to spend some time together in the house before he goes off and does all this stuff. Um but you know the phone could ring. That’s kind of the exciting thing about being an actor. These projects are going on and you don’t even know about it and then you get a call because they’re finally ready to cast and you know maybe an actress they wanted is has fallen out of it and you get the call And that’s always really kind of one of the perks.

Colleen: You know we talk a lot about the wisdom and the privileges that come with getting older- Mm-hmm and that we’ve earned And what would you say are some of the most important kind of either privileges or wise experiences that you’ve had that you would wanna share With either your daughters You know we do this podcast for our daughters we both have daughters Mm-hmm We don’t have to They take for granted the things that we had to talk about with menopause and all those fun things And we’re kind of past that But what do you find that you’ve kind of earned as a privilege in this time of life

Annette:  Uh I think just being able to speak my mind and not feel like I’m taking up too much space or um that I don’t have the right to say how I feel like I’m taking up too much space or um that I don’t have the right to say how I feel I for a very long time just until kind of recently I felt very embarrassed about saying what I really feel uh even in my work. Um and I and I don’t know really why ,but I I don’t feel that so much. And sometimes it’s like a part you play, like playing Hope in in Virgin River. She’s very outspoken and speaks her mind And I thought “Oh I’d kind of like to be more like that.” So maybe I I’ve just taken it on ’cause she’s you know such a part of me and I’ve been doing her for seven years now. Um I Just being who you are is enough. Uh maybe ’cause from a very young age I’ve been trying to please and trying to be somebody else or play a part and be the perfect you know little dancer or the perfect little daughter whatever I don’t feel that pressure anymore. But it’s taken a long time not to feel that way. Um but I don’t know. Like I really I don’t have any huge wisdom about anything .Sorry I but you see No that’s that’s actually qui-

Colleen:  No It’s nice actually quite nice because we do hear from a lot of women that just feel like “I’m enough.” Yeah “I’m enough just as exactly as I am.”

Annette:  That’s exactly right I- Yeah I mean look if you if you’re doing a Zoom thing you can see I don’t dye my hair anymore. I got sick of doing that. And I I have to say I ,I don’t believe in plastic surgery unless it’s for um For me for me definitely and you know I from seeing some other actresses I think it’s a mistake. Um but um unless it’s life f- for You know people who really need it for certain things you know. But just as a sort of thing of like “Well I  don’t like the way my neck looks.” “I don’t like the way my neck looks but tough you know?” I’ve had I have had the privilege of all these years of experience so that should be. That’s why I love uh Jamie Lee’s take on everything. You know she’s like “Here I am This is it This is what this me at this age looks like.” And we shouldn’t all have to be .Why are we fixated with being young? And I think it’s ’cause people are afraid of dying.

Colleen: It could be yeah I think it could be

And You Yeah And it it is it is uh really amazing too and I love to see the embracing .So many people just like I’ve had it with the hair coloring and- Yeah Andie MacDowell she is just Yeah Oh my gosh she couldn’t be more beautiful

Annette: The irony is that people admire it like other women you know admires it but I would I don’t have the courage to do it It’s like “Does it take courage Just just don’t do it.” To not- Just don’t dye your hair sit in a chair for two and a half hours and have all hear that- And all the music and talking Ugh Mm-mm

Colleen: Yeah And she really she said “I don’t wanna be young again.” I’ve done that Yeah And if you do it well you don’t really wanna do it again And so- Yeah it’s kind of nice to It’s just there’s something very peaceful about getting older that if you embrace it can be a beautiful thing I think a lot of women are fighting They’re looking so far behind them-

Annette:  Yeah that they don’t see what’s in front of them and it’s just a shame because there’s so much out there I know ‘Cause today is is really all we have for sure, this moment. Um I’m healthier I think than I’ve ever been. Uh I know I am.  I eat better and I walk every .I have osteoporosis so I have to uh walk to build bone because they didn’t wanna take the injections that they give you. My doctor really wanted me to take them I said “Let me try ,Let me try to do this with diet and exercise.” And she said “Okay I’ll give you a year.” And so I did another bone density test and I had stayed exactly the same. Oh that’s So she said “Okay you can stay out of this.” So I’ve done that now for three years So I walk at I have Well I wear my little pedometer- You know I forgot to put it on me. But I always put it on .know I put it on my other pants. I threw them in the wash. Anyway.

Colleen:  Well I hope you don’t wash it.

Annette:  I did that once and I thought “Oh God it’s dead.” But it came back.  But uh so I walk at least 7,000 steps a day M- mostly more ’cause now I’m walking Barry all through Stanley Park which I I’m living close to in Vancouver. So um I just uh ,Yeah I just I feel really good. I feel physically better  than ever.

Bridgett:  Oh that’s- That’s great That’d be fabulous That’s amazing Mm-hmm

Colleen: And you look amazing too !

Annette: Thank you

Colleen: You do you do Thank look happy I’m You’re you radiate a certain happiness and that you can always see it in someone’s face when they’re- Yeah content- Yes and happy And we so appreciate you joining us today

Annette: Absolutely It was my pleasure to be here and talk to you guys And uh I wish I had more wisdom to impart but just- hang in there everybody Oh gets better It really does It can does Yeah It does yeah It that is so true Se