MAGGIE SMITH: EPISODE LINK

BOOK LINK: DEAR WRITER: Pep Talks & Practical Advice for the Creative Life

Transcript:

Colleen: Welcome back to Hot Flashes and Cool Topics.

Today we are talking to Maggie Smith. Welcome to the show.

Maggie: Oh, thanks for having me.

Colleen: Well, we were excited for this conversation because so many of our listeners and Bridgett

and I, you know, we have stories to tell. The longer that you live, the more

stories you want to share. And some of our listeners will say, “I’d like to write

something.” And it doesn’t necessarily have to be a book. It could be a journal, it

could be a story to your children, whatever that might be, but they don’t know

where to start. So your book is out now. It’s called “Dear Writer, Peptalks and

Practical Advice for the Creative Life, and you certainly have a lot of experience

and creativity, but it’s kind of a how -to book on how to get started and where to

go. Why write this book now?

Maggie: Yeah, that’s a great question. I think I got,

and women, I think in particular, will understand this. I think I needed to get a

couple decades of experience under my belt before I felt like I even to give myself

permission to write a book telling other people what I’ve learned in life and how

to maybe apply that knowledge. I don’t think I could have written this book in my

20s when I was just getting started and figuring it out for myself. And frankly, in

my 30s, I was raising kids and I trying to compile a bunch of classes and talks

and conversations about writing would have been a little unmanageable. I couldn’t even

get time to take a shower without someone opening the curtain and asking me

questions. You know how those years are.

Colleen:  We can relate to that.

Maggie: You know. So

this is this is the time where I’m like, oh, my first book came out 20 years ago

this year. And which seems impossible to me because I feel like I’m reverse aging.

So that seems impossible to me. But I think I finally got into a place where I’ve

compiled so much information, and wouldn’t it be fun to house all of that in

one place and be able to hand it off to another person and say, if you don’t know

where to start, maybe start here.

Bridgettt: Right. And you know, I think that really stood

out to me in the book, that you said everybody starts out as a writer, but

something happens along the way that stopped them. And I feel like that’s happened

to me, you know, things like that you learn in school and oh, this is wrong,

you know, the grammar is wrong or my sentence is wrong. What could you say to

somebody that said, OK, that got squashed. What can I do? I want to get it back.

What is something I can do to get that back?

Maggie: Yeah, that’s why a big part of this

book is pep talks. It comes in the subtitle even before practical advice and every

section in the book begins with a pep talk that’s a writer directly to you know

arranged directly to the reader and so I think what we need to get started whether

we’ve been doing it all along or whether we’ve kind of like fallen off the writing

wagon is to we need two things:  we need tools and we need a gentle nudge

in the right direction of encouragement. If you give someone tools without

encouragement, that’s useful, but they could use the boost. If you give someone a

pep talk, but don’t give them any practical advice, they might be energized to

begin, but then what do they do? So, I really wanted to put both of those things

into this book.

For those people, because yeah, I think As kids,

we’re also creative. We’re drawing, we’re coloring, we’re writing little songs and

jingles to ourselves or writing stories or poems or performing plays with our friends

in the backyard or in the parents’ living room and then somewhere along the way,

whether it’s through schooling or having to sort of start a life and become a grown

-up and become quote -unquote responsible. A lot of us let that play,

that creative mischief go. And whether we do this professionally or not,

I think there’s so much value to each of us in letting ourselves play artistically

in that way. – And play does become more important as we get older.

Colleen: We talk to a lot of experts about the importance of play. You talk about

creativity being our birthright, which is a little bit what you touched on there and

that we get off track and I think that’s true of a lot of things that we have

desires and you know

when I hear someone wrote a memoir at 25 like a celebrity or something I go how

could you possibly have anything?  How did you get a 200 page book of a memoir age

25 you simply haven’t lived enough. With the book that you’ve written,

I love that you’re divided into kind of 10 different elements of creativity. Again,

a starting place for people. And attention is the first thing.

And like you were saying, when we’re going through life, we don’t always pay

attention to the important things. So how can one start to pay attention in order

to let that creativity through?

Maggie: – Yeah, that’s huge. I mean, I think attention comes

first for a reason. If I had to boil down to one in this book, I just realized

this thinking and hearing your question, I would boil it down to that one. Attention

is the key. And not just for making art or writing, attention is the key for

living. I always say all of the most important things that I use in my life as a

writer, I also use in my life as a mother, and as a friend, and as a daughter,

and as a partner, like all of those things. And one of those things is paying

attention, like being present, not scrolling your phone constantly,

not trying to multitask constantly in a world where we’re sort of being bombarded

all the time. And so one of those things is, what would happen if you left your

phone in your house and took a walk in your neighborhood. That seems like such

simple advice, even if it’s just for a half an hour. Or just put it in your bag

or listen to music, but don’t be thumbing your way through it as you’re out and

about. But just unplugging a little bit from screens, going for a

walk or a drive or even just sitting outside or sitting by a window, listening to

the birds, listening to the wind in the trees, listening to the neighbor kids play,

hearing a dog bark in the distance, just reminding yourself that you’re a human

being in the world and that you don’t need to be sort of chained to all of these

other things. I think people underestimate how powerful 30 minutes of free time can

do. Right, to pay attention and really have a sensory experience, like really noticing

what’s around you, the color of the sky, the consistency of the clouds, the sounds

you hear, the textures you see, like just feeling grounded. Even therapists

will tell you that. If you’re stressing or even are having a panic attack or

feeling anxiety, what do you feel in your body? What do you see? What’s in the

room that you’re in just to ground you. And so that’s, that’s I think easy advice

that any of us can follow. Right.

Bridgett: Yeah, you mentioned the senses and you mentioned

that in the book. And I was an elementary school teacher. And that was like, you

know, first, second grade, if we started that, we always talked about the senses.

And one of the things that I love too, is that with your family, is it a beauty

emergency? Can you talk about what that is? I loved it.

Maggie- Yeah, I posted one on my Instagram recently, beauty emergency. It’s what we,

the phrase that we use in our house for when something is beautiful and fleeting,

it’s going to disappear quickly. And so everyone has to run to see it. So like a

hot pink sunrise is the one that I took some photos of the other day or the moon

looking just right behind the clouds or a rainbow or you know whatever the case may

be something that if you don’t run to see it or take a look and pay attention

again right away it will be gone or will change and so I used the phrase because

when I my kids were a little younger just yelling sunrise doesn’t get people to

come running to you right but if you yell emergency people come to you it’s like

yelling fire in a crowded theater, but in a positive way. So I would yell “beauty

emergency” and the kids would come running and we’d all look at whatever the thing

was. And so just the other day, my son, who’s now 12, he’s a middle schooler,

yelled “beauty emergency”. And we all had to go look and take pictures of this

beautiful, like pink and purple and blue sunrise. So it’s, again, it’s about paying

attention. And I think this is something I talk to my students about, but it’s

obviously the way I parent too. Like I’m always trying to get my kids, whether

we’re on walks or just in the house to put their antenna up and dial into the

world they live in. And so that’s become a big part of our lives here.

Bridgett:  – Yeah,

just thinking about that and the beauty emergency. And when I was Um,

when I started teaching, we were throwing away the editing, punctuation, and spelling for

writing so they could get the words down. Editing would come later. And oh my goodness, we had the worst time with parents understanding that

we were like, so can you talk about why I mean?

I just thought about it when I was reading your book, how we did that. We said,

we just want you to write.

Colleen: Well, and also I think Just along those lines you don’t

really agree with a writing schedule I think a lot of people talk about you must

write a thousand words a day It doesn’t matter what but along those lines what

Bridgett is saying you don’t really believe in a writing schedule And I think a lot

of people think if I’m going to write I need to do that.

Maggie: Yeah, I mean, I think

both of those things are about freedom to create on your own terms, right? So as a

kid if you are allowed to just free -write and not be worrying about the capital

letters for proper nouns at the beginning of sentences, and if you don’t worry about

where the commas and periods have to go, and you can almost kind of stream of

consciousness, some writing, I think that’s really permission -giving to kids.

Frankly, if you just told a college student, just free -write and don’t edit

yourself, I tell my grad students this, sit down with a pen and a legal pad and

just write. Don’t worry so much about where it’s going, don’t second -guess yourself,

don’t start revising as you go, just get it all down. Give yourself permission to

just get it all down and then you can go back with a different part of your brain

and weed through all of that beautiful mess and see what you have. And then you

see that the sort of rough, that’s the lump of clay that you have to work with,

and then you start sculpting it, right? And I think it’s the same thing with the

schedule. I’m actually, I admire people who have a writing schedule. I think if you

can sit down at the same time every day and write for the same amount of time or

a certain number of words, I commend you. I think that’s incredible. I don’t do it,

nor do I feel guilty about not doing it. And I think for a lot of people who

either are caregiving, whether it’s parents, aging parents, or kids,

or grandkids, or for health reasons, that’s not possible,

or for work reasons, that’s not possible, there are a lot of us who would love to

have the freedom to do anything every day at the same time, and that’s not how our

lives look. So what I want to do is just make sure that people know that’s not a

prerequisite. As long as you do- you get to be a writer,

even if you only have 20 minutes, not at the same time, three times a week. No

one’s testing you. You don’t get a merit badge for doing it a certain way. The

most important thing is that you just prioritize it. If it makes you happy, find a

way to do –

Colleen: – No, I was just gonna say, do your grad

students look at you crazy when you say legal pad? They’re like, you know,

I don’t think so. I mean, yes, of course, I know, I have them too.

Maggie:  And yes,

of course, I mean, some of, but the other thing is yes, if you wanna open a doc,

a Google doc or a word doc.

Colleen: – That’s what I was curious about, is it better to

have a pen and paper and just write.

Maggie: – It is. I mean, I write first longhand

almost all the time, mostly because I never learned how to type. That is the truth.

I do not know how to properly type. And so I’m slow and inaccurate. But my brain

works at the speed of my hand. So I’m able to get more down in that sort of pre

-editing stage, that initial love affair drafting stage with a piece of writing with

my hand. But it’s also true, and there’s neuroscience behind this,

that writing things down, we process things differently in our brain when we hand

write versus when we are on a keyboard. We remember things better when we write

them down than when we text them into the notes function on our iPhones or send

them in an email. There is something that gets sort of hardwired into our brains

probably from childhood that associates handwriting differently in our brain.

So I actually do, I know I’m old fashioned, but I advocate for that.

Bridgett: – Well, all

three of us, we are writers. I mean, I could get notes about someone we’re

interviewing, but I have to write it. But like you said that it’s something that

just stays there in our brain. I also really like how you include in there that we

might start out, we feel like we’re writing for somebody else. But can you talk

about when it comes to that point where we know that we’re writing for ourselves?

Maggie: – Yeah, I always write for myself first. And maybe that sounds selfish,

But I really, unless I’m doing some sort of commissioned work, if someone asks me

to write something for a specific audience, that’s a different gig. But for me, when

I’m writing my own poems or essays or stories, I’m writing for myself.

I’m the audience, and I’m competing with myself,

not with other writers or other books, right? And so at a certain point, Before I

have to kick that thing out of the nest, if I do want to publish it, I do have

to think about the reader’s likely experience of that piece of writing.

It doesn’t mean I’ll change it for them, but I at least want to consider that this

is not something that’s going to exist just with me. And I think that’s why when

we get to the stage of sharing, we are reading closely. We do care about

capitalization and punctuation. We do care about how a thing is organized. It’s

different from having a conversation with a friend and telling a story. You really

do want to kind of sculpt it and shape it on the page. But I advise not worrying

too much about that in the early stages because you’ll kind of box yourself in.

Colleen: – Right, yeah. – I like also at the end of each section, you do a generic writing

activity to kind of create, you know, it’s like homework, but in a good way.

– Yeah. – And you have, you do book recommendations, research, future, which I love

that you’re supportive of other people who are writing as well. Why do you think

it’s important that someone read that chapter and then say, okay, I’m gonna do some

type of writing activity?

Maggie: – Yeah, I wanted it, I love, it is kind of homework, but

it’s not what homework is, my kids would say, homework is required at school,

mom. And I’m like, this isn’t required, right? It’s more of an invitation. So I’m

inviting the reader at the end of every section to try out something that I’ve

talked about in that section. You don’t have to, you can skip right by it if you

want to. But my hope is that it will be kind of energizing and fun to dip in and

maybe experiment a little and try something new and then those reading

recommendations. I love when a book sends me to other books. I love that kind of

community space that that books create when they reference other things and then you

can kind of go off into a different rabbit hole and find things to read. So I

would love if people closed Dear Writer and had some interesting first drafts of

some things under their belts because they took a chance and accepted my invitation

and tried some things, but also had like a long list of things they wanted to

reserve at their local library or they wanted to walk into their independent

bookstore with a post -it note that had some things written down to see if they can

get a hold of any of those things, that to me is like bonus.

Bridgett: – Right. And I love

too how you said if you’re

going to a coffee shop or wherever you’re going, you bring a book with you, and

can you talk about why you do that?

Maggie: – Yeah, to me, it’s like a springboard, or a,

you know, it’s kind of like a conversation starter, but the conversation I’m having

was with my own mind. So if I sit down at a coffee shop and I read, I open a

book of poems or, you know, it could be a science text, it doesn’t have to be

poetry, it can be anything, it could be a novel. I open it up and I read a few

sentences or a poem. It’s inevitable that something I read,

whether it’s a phrase, an unexpected vocabulary word, you know, if it’s a science

text or something, I’m like, oh, what does that mean? Or that word reminds me of

something else. I wonder if those two things are related. Or the syntax, like just

the sentence structure of something that I can kind of borrow and plug my own words

into. That’s for me a way to get started. I don’t know if people think that

professional writers just sort of sit down in front of a blank page and the ideas

just come flowing through. That is not at all what happens, at least not for me.

I really do need maybe the walk between my house and the coffee shop inspires me

’cause I’m hearing and seeing things if I’m paying attention. And if nothing comes

on that walk, then I’ve got a book that I can page through and get some ideas.

So I recommend that. Like reading is a gateway to writing.

Colleen: – You also talk about

the fact that metaphors are the most important part in your toolbox piece in your

toolbox. Why is that? Because we’re going to get into a metaphor simile and

Bridgett’s favorite alliteration.

Maggie: Oh, alliteration Oh, the tongue twister

territory. Yeah, I mean, I metaphor is sort of my currency,

like most poems, I would argue, have a kind of metaphor -based center of

gravity. The meaning in the poem and the sort of weight of the poem is in this

comparison that’s being made. And it’s being made in a way that you’re like, “Ah,

I’ll never see or think of that thing in the same way again because now I’m

looking at it through the lens of this metaphor.” I think a lot of people think

metaphor is tricky. Like saying one thing is something else. When I always tell

students is it’s basically a two -step process. And if you think about it this way,

it breaks it down really easy. One, a sensory observation. What do you see?

What do you hear? What are you touching? What does it feel like? Just describing

that sensory observation. And then two is, okay, what does that remind me of?

That’s not a hard question. What is this texture remind me of like wet tree bark?

Oh, it’s kind of like leathery. Oh, that’s interesting. Or this leaf feels like

paper or that bird sounds like dot, dot, dot.

That’s where metaphor comes from. It’s not rocket science,

as we say, right? So that that kind of two step is something you could

teach a six -year -old that two -step. –

Colleen: And I

think another thing that people really struggle When they want to write is if they

have stories to tell it opens them up. They must be vulnerable. Oh, sure How is

this going to be received? How vulnerable do I want to get? Which stories do I

want to tell? Where do people go with that?

Maggie: Yeah, that’s that honestly one of the

questions I get most often is Some version of how do I write the thing? I can’t

bear to write or how do I tell the thing I can’t bear to tell,

because if you’re scared to say something, that’s probably where you need to begin

your storytelling. Like, and I think I know all of us have stories, but some of

us, maybe even many of us, have burning stories that live inside of us that maybe

we’ve told the story to a few friends, but we haven’t let it really live and

breathe anywhere. And so how do we get guts to do that. And, and I think one of

the things we’ve already talked about is a key, which is not thinking too much

about where a thing is going to go or who is going to see it when you start. So

I always advise writing as if it’s sort of like dancing like no one’s watching.

Write like no one’s going to read it first draft. Just get it all down. Don’t

censor yourself. even the parts that are the scariest to tell, right? Get that

information down in your draft. You will have time later then to decide who was the

audience for this story. Maybe it’s just my daughter, okay?

Maybe I’m not sending this to a magazine. Maybe it’s just, I want my kids to know

about this part of my life. So if I’m gonna share this with my daughter, now let’s

read this draft through the lens of what I think it would be like for her. Is

there anything in this draft that I think would be especially painful or weird for

her to read and is it essential to the story? If it could be painful and it’s

actually not essential, like the story still works, if you don’t give everything

away, you hold some things back and set some boundaries, play with removing that.

Save that draft. Rename it, you know, version two or revision so that you still

have the writing that you did in that first draft. It’s not gone. But save a new

version that you think might be safer for that audience’s eyes. That I think is

maybe the best way to approach writing the hard things and being vulnerable,

is letting yourself do it just for you first and not worrying about other people

seeing it and then tailoring the thing that you are comfortable to share for whoever

you think you’re going to share it with.

Bridgett:  I always feel like those parts of the

book or anything that I read when the people are so vulnerable in it, that makes

the best stories. That’s what I feel. I always feel like, wow, they really bared

their soul here. And that had to be hard to do and I don’t know, it makes me

more empathetic to the writer, and I find it more interesting. What happens when,

and I know this happens, you’re writing and you’re stuck. You’re getting stuck.

What’s some good advice there?

Maggie: – Yeah, I mean, I think there are two things. One,

if you’re writing and you’re stuck, and you’re a student or you have a deadline,

right? If you’re a student and you have something do, or you’re a writer and you

have a deadline, you have to find a way to get yourself unstuck. And I hope that

some of the exercises in Dear Writer would be useful for that, because I do address

that. But for most of us, if we’re just writing for ourselves or maybe we plan on

writing for others, but we’re not on a deadline, we’ve got plenty of time, my

feeling is just set it aside. And Again, don’t feel bad if you’re not writing every

day at the same time banging out a certain number of words. If you feel stuck and

something isn’t coming and it doesn’t feel pleasurable to you to be doing it, time

never made anything worse. A lack of time has made plenty of things worse, right,

rushing. But setting something aside and trusting future you to come back to it in

a week or a month or six months and look at it with fresh eyes chances are you

will something will click in you when you will see the next step to take or you’ll

see something you want to change or you’ll get an idea for how to take it in a

new direction or add to it but yeah I think giving ourselves cutting ourselves some

slack is a good way to approach it

Colleen: under the vision section you talk about making

yourself your own uncool and not necessary it’s okay to not be liked and I think

in this social media crazy world people are just so cruel and really you know hide

behind the anonymity but you’re saying it’s okay if you make yourself uncool first

and say it’s okay not to be liked, then maybe it’s not as shocking or hurtful when

you start getting those reviews or responses that are not kind.

Maggie: Yeah, it is hard.

None of us are immune to it, right? It doesn’t matter if you’re working on your

first book or publishing your 20th book.

People’s opinions can lift you up or tear you down, right? That’s none of us ever

outgrow or become exempt from the judgments of others. And I think,

I mean, one of the things that one of the things that make us trust writers,

like you were saying, Bridgett, I think is when they’re open and vulnerable with us.

And it makes us feel sort of less alone and carrying our own stuff.

But it also makes us feel like we’re in community. And we kind of trust that

person ’cause they’re sharing something with us. The other side of that is, if we

are willing to share deep parts of ourselves with complete strangers and handing the

story to them, we also have to be prepared that that story is not going to please

everyone. There will be people we know in our lives who are not pleased we told

that story or don’t understand why we’re doing what we’re doing in a public way and

who might judge us for that. There will be strangers who don’t like our writing

style or the topic that we chose or all of the above. And one thing I’ve learned,

not just as a writer, but as a human being is, we are never going to please

everyone. I’m not for everyone. My personality is not for everyone.

My music taste is not for everyone. I think I’m pretty idiosyncratic. But when you

know that, then when the people find  that you are for, it feels like an even

tighter community. And then you just kind of let the rest go.

I would also say, I try not to read comments, period.

Even the positive ones. Praise can sometimes make you complacent,

complacent, like, oh, I guess I’m doing a great job. I’ll pat myself on the back.

And criticism can make you feel like you want to give up, or feel stuck, or feel

like, uh, regret, or feel just paralyzed to make the next thing. So really,

any input can upset the balance of what the next thing you make might look like.

And so for me, it’s better to just make a thing and then keep my head down and

start making the next thing without paying too much attention to how that first

thing’s being received. –

Bridgett:  Yeah, I think I can use a lot of things from your family

and what you say. I think after that quote, ’cause I was looking, Colleen had that

same quote or that same part down, “don’t yuck my yum”. Yeah, don’t yuck my yum.

– Don’t yuck my yum. – I was like, oh my gosh, I’m gonna have “” and

“don’t yuck my yum”. Those are two things that are coming into the Garratt house.

Maggie: Yeah, we say that all the time in my house.

Like, oh, I love this, I love this song. And my kid’s like, that song’s so dumb.

“Don’t yuck my yum”. Or they like something and I’m like, oh, I don’t really want to

do that. “Don’t yuck my yum”. Like everybody’s yum is different. Taste is subjective.

And it’s – Okay, if you like things that are different from what other people like.

Bridgett:- Right, right, I love it, I love that so much. And another thing, you know, you

do teach writing and something that really stood out to me is that you,

it’s hard, like when you’re writing, when you’re reading one of your students’

writings, they might not write the way that you write, but how do you use your

objectiveness to grade that piece, even though it’s maybe not your style of writing.

Maggie: Yeah, I mean, mercifully with grad students, you don’t actually grade them. You just

give them feedback. You get an A. You get an A. But yeah,

whenever I’m giving feedback to a writer, I’m always cognizant not to try to revise

their work to sound like I would write that particular piece. If someone gives me a

poem about a tree losing its leaves in fall, I’m not supposed to give them feedback

to make it sound like a Maggie Smith poem. I’m supposed to give them feedback and

ask them probing questions and help them write their best version of that poem in

their own voice, doing the work that they want it to do. And so I tend to give a

lot less prescriptive advice like you should do X. And it’s a lot more kind of

like the homework in the book. It’s a lot more invitations. Like have you thought

about trying this? Or what might happen if you dot, dot,

dot? Or do you get the impression that the poem starts here? What would happen if

you rearrange these pieces? Or what do you think the title is doing? Would a

different title do more work. And I think two things, people like not being told

what to do with their own writing and rightfully so. And also,

I think it focuses a little bit more on the process. And so when answering those

questions for themselves, they get to know themselves a little bit better as writers,

and then that will have an impact on the next thing they write and the next thing

and the next thing. It’s not about fixing that particular poem. It’s about you

getting to know yourself better so that you can evolve as a writer. It kind of

reminds me of reading that part.

Bridgett: A story I hear about my husband when he was a

little boy. His mother always says that he went on a field trip and they went to

a historical site and they were supposed to write about that and what he wrote

about was the birds and he wrote about the flowers he saw and that so thankfully

that teacher wrote to his mom don’t ever let him lose this, now I’m gonna cry I’m

gonna cry,

Colleen:  but usually usually Bridgett makes people cry

Bridgett:  now I’m crying, but

that she said that you know he was I don’t know second or third grade and said,

thankfully that teacher did not say you didn’t write about the historical whatever it

was. Don’t ever let him lose that. And I’m like, and he didn’t lose that. I mean,

even though he i wasn’t a writer, but he still has that freedom.

I can tell that he feels that freedom where I probably didn’t hear the same thing.

You know, he grew up in – Ohio, it’s something about those Ohio people.

Maggie: – Yeah, we

do have good people here. – I love that. I love that he was encouraged to pay

attention.

Bridgett: – He was encouraged, and I do, you know, like you’ve said that before,

sometimes something gets squashed and just trying to find that freedom back.

And maybe that’s something we get with our age too, is that, wait, we realize we

can do this. We have this freedom to do this and write what we write, and not

worry about what anybody else thinks. So I really, I don’t know, that just kind of

stuck out to me there.

Maggie:- I love that story.

Colleen: You know, one of the things I wonder

about with writing, because I do love to write too, and when you write your poems

or your books, when you’re done, is it a feeling of legacy,

like that’s going to live on beyond me, or is it just that you had so much inside

that you needed, is it like satisfaction that you got it out? What do you feel

after you’re done, not necessarily a work project, ’cause that’s something totally

different. Something that was on your heart or your mind that you got out and you

feel like, okay, this is now on paper.

Maggie: – It is satisfying. I mean, I don’t really

think a lot about legacy because I have no idea what that will be. I don’t know

what people will still be reading in 50 years or 100 years. I hope some of the

things I’ve written are among what people are reading in 50 or 100 years, but I

have no idea.

But I do, it does feel satisfying and I think in some ways for me it feels like

a clearing. Like it’s sort of something is kind of opening up because that poem,

or especially if it’s a book, something I’ve been writing, you know, for a year or

more has been occupying my space. It’s like a companion I’ve been spending all of

this time with, getting it ready, getting it ready, getting it ready. And so when

it’s finally done, I’m proud of it, you know, the way I am with my children. And

actually books are kind of like kids too, in that I only feel partially responsible

for them. I’m sort of like a steward of the work. They’re not really mine, like my

kids. But then once it’s over, this big space opens up.

I’m like an empty nester again with my ideas. And I can, and so then I’m in this

really enthusiastic, open headspace of like, so what’s next?

That’s always what happens. It’s like, I’m so happy. Congratulations, you’re born

book. And now you’ve left this opening in my life for the next thing and what does

that get to be? And that kind of generative clearing that opens- up after a big

project is one of the most exciting places to be in because then you get to choose

the next path.

Colleen:  – Right. Well, you know, the fact that this book just came out to

you birthed. – This book, Dear Writer, it’s beautiful. Do you have any idea where

you might go next or, and of course we will invite you back when that happens.

Maggie: – I

do, it’s a busy time. I have an anthology coming out in the fall in September that

I’m co -editing with my dear friend, Saed Jones. It’s called The People’s Project.

And then I have a book of poems, a suit or a suitcase coming out in March,

2026. So I’m in copy edits on that and I’m working on a novel right now.

So that will be the next, next, next thing. So I don’t keep a generative clearing

for long.

Colleen:  – I was gonna say it didn’t last very long.

Maggie: – No, the generative clearing

is like, and what’s next? And then I’m so lighted to jump,

you know, feet first into whatever that thing’s going to be.

Colleen: Well, thank you for,

for diving feet first into this conversation about your book, because we certainly

appreciate it. And we’ll have a link to the book in our show notes. Thank you so

much, Maggie, for joining us today. We appreciate it. This was a joy. Thank you.